Passive Causatives

Consider the following sentences, where letters are standing in for subjects
and objects:

X forces Y to eat Z
X forces Y to be eaten by Z
X is forced to eat Y by Z
*X is forced to be eaten by Y by Z

Essentially, there are 2 verbs running in parallel, either or both of which
could theoretically be passive. In English, the agents are distinguished by
using the proposition 'by'. But when there are two agents, the meaning is
confused. Admittedly, this is a very odd sentence structure, but how do
natural languages make the last sentence clear?


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[more thorough exlanation[?] follows]


discussion

king  loi  tabe jaan a skana - I force eat jon fish - I force john to eat a
fish
king sloi  tabe jaan a skana - I am-forced eat jon fish - I am forced to eat
jon by a fish
king  loi stabe jaan a skana - I force eaten jon fish - I force jon to be
eaten by a fish
king sloi stabe jaan a skana - I am-forced eaten jon fish - I am forced by
jon to be eaten by a fish

causality & passivity
=====================
eater eaten forcer
---------------------
jon fish I
I jon fish
fish jon I
fish I jon


I am forced to be eaten by Jon by a fish
I am forced to be eaten by a fish by a Jon

At first glance, there are 2 verbs running in parrallel here, either or both
of which can be made passive to change teh meaning. But the meaning is
totally confused
when both verbs are made passive. A better way to look at it is to consider
that there are 3 actors in the sentence, jon, ben, and the fish, and 6
possible
permutations, some of which are ungrammatical in English.

forcer eater eaten
----------------------
ben jon fish ben makes jon eat the fish
ben fish jon ben makes jon be eaten by the fish
jon ben fish *ben is made by jon to eat the fish
jon fish ben *ben is made to be eaten by the fish by jon
fish jon ben *ben is made to be eaten by jon by the fish
fish ben jon ben is made to eat jon by the fish


ben jon fish ben makes jon eat the fish
ben fish jon ben makes jon be eaten by the fish
fish ben jon ben is made to eat jon by the fish



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Rhialto
A country can be judged by the quality of its proverbs.