Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: words from Su Cheng Zhong

From:Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>
Date:Sunday, August 18, 2002, 19:29
I'd prefer if someone began by teaching him to write something resembling
normal English. Or make sense. Or, even better, cease writing at all.

                                                 Andreas

>From: bnathyuw <bnathyuw@...>7 +0100 > >DAMNIT. SOMEONE TEACH THE BOY TO USE PARAGRAPHS ! > > >--- lu su <intelligent888@...> wrote: > Even >George Bernard Shaw subconsciously aware that > > increasing sounds’ number can understand the world > > better. In his Pygmalion, Higgins can distinguish > > one > > hundred and thirty vowel sounds, so he is smarter > > than > > Pickering. This technique enables Higgins to turn a > > flower gird into a princess magically. But do you > > ever > > think? If Higgins’ one hundred and thirty vowel > > sounds > > instead of promoting a flower girl, he uses it in > > the > > transmission of message? Isn’t it what we are > > looking > > forward to? Since a vowel has to be pronounced with > > a > > certain tone, you can’t separate them. It is just > > like > > that you cannot separate vowel with consonant. As > > every Mandarin speaker can distinguish four tones of > > every vowels, so we may say that every vowel for > > English speaker is four vowels for a Mandarin > > speaker. > > The 20 vowels of English are 80 vowels for Mandarin > > speaker, and the 35 Chinese vowels are 140 vowels > > for > > Mandarin speaker, 10 vowels more than Higgins’. > > Any way, I believe the strongest power of the human > > world is reason. Once you violated reason, people > > call > > you nonsense, and with nonsense, a strong army can > > turn to weaker, a richer person can turn to poorer. > > Some anthropologist believed between the species > > that > > could use language (human) and that couldn’t use > > language (animal), there were some species that > > could > > speak little language or speak a backward language. > > Later they found some evidence from the discovery of > > Neanderthal. > > From http://www.wjh.harvard.edu/~tec/FitchWray.pdf > > “For the last thirty years, fossil analysis has been > > the dominant approach to the study of the evolution > > of > > speech. Paleoanthropologists have attempted to use > > the > > hominid fossil record to deduce the timing and order > > of speech-related adaptations such as the descent of > > the larynx and enlargement of cortical regions. This > > approach was initiated by the seminal observation by > > Lieberman et al. (1969) that the human vocal tract > > differs from that in other primates, in having a > > lowered larynx (Figure 1), a configuration that > > allows > > humans to make a wider variety of vowels that other > > primate species. Soon afterward, Lieberman and > > Crelin > > (1971) used a reconstruction of the Neanderthal soft > > tissue vocal tract, based on basicranial anatomy and > > some comparative data, to infer that larynx position > > in Neanderthals was closer to that of other primates > > than of modern humans. This suggested that > > Neanderthals could not make certain speech sounds > > that > > are typical of modern human languages. Although > > those > > authors never claimed that Neanderthals lacked > > language entirely, the paper spurred a vigorous (and > > still ongoing) debate about the speech and language > > capacities of Neanderthals, and extinct hominids in > > general (Falk 1975, DuBrul 1976, Arensburg et al. > > 1989, 1990). A review of this literature makes clear > > that there is still no general agreement about when > > articulate speech came to play the crucial role that > > it subserves in modern human language. This is not > > surprising, because the vocal tract is largely made > > up > > of soft tissue that does not fossilize, and thus > > there > > are no obvious skeletal indicators that would > > provide > > unambiguous evidence for speech. Thus, despite many > > years of hard work, new fossils, and creative new > > approaches to analysis, the currently available > > fossil > > data are inconclusive.” > > > > In http://zolatimes.com/V2.41/dognose.html, there is > > an interesting supposition: > > “About 100,000 years ago we all were wandering over > > the face of the earth, nibbling here and there. Some > > of us, members of Homo Erectus, evolved with a > > smaller, flatter face, but essentially our brain > > size > > was the same as our Neanderthal cousins. Although we > > differed in mild respects physically, both types of > > humans behaved similarly. We buried our dead, used > > fire and tools, cared for the old ones and raised > > kids. We hunted and gathered together on the planet > > and lived side by side from 120,000 years ago till > > about 30,000 years past. Then came a crucial moment > > in > > our evolution. Homo Sapiens survived and the > > Neanderthal did not. This fact is rather curious > > since > > they were bigger and stronger than us, with huge > > noses > > and large muscles. It would seem that they had an > > advantage to ensure their survival over us. So why > > did > > we survive and they didn’t? > > The Homo Sapiens, having a smaller flatter face with > > a > > narrower nose subsequently lost the accurate sense > > of > > smell that had allowed us to smell danger. Our > > olfactory bulb (nerve for smell) is the smallest > > among > > all human species, and when it went, about 14,000 > > years ago, we were ready to gain speech. This was > > due > > to the fact that we could now lift our lighter heads > > upward and forward giving us an advantage in seeing > > our prey, and free up the voice box to reverberate > > sounds. - - > > Life in and around the camp adjusted to the > > presence > > of the wolf. But an added boon became apparent very > > quickly. Since the sense of smell in humans had > > reduced their ability to detect oncoming prey, the > > noisy wolves sounded the alert when danger was > > immanent, because they could smell for miles. This > > interdependence was a cozy situation for both. Each > > understood the other in an easy symbiosis. For the > > wolf this was a good deal and they knew it. They > > chose > > us and in time man's best friend was the result. > > Despite our thinking that our favorite Benji > > understands the words we use, he still only > > recognizes > > the gestures, movements and the tonal sound of > > emotion, as any one who yells at a dog will know. > > They > > refuse to cooperate with irrational humans.” > > From the standpoint of empiricism, some one > > criticise > > that this conclusion is not true. They believe that > > the soft tissue of Homo Sapiens and Neanderthal are > > no > > different. At least, no body have every seen it. But > > from rationalism thinking, it is convincible. It is > > the principle of evolutionist. Or we may say no > > matter > > it is true or not, there should be some species > > between able and unable to use language. If it were > > not the Neanderthal, it would be some species else, > > which have not been discovered yet. > > I am always wondering wether the computer will be > > the > > next helper of human being? It is just like the dog > > (wolf) to Homo Sapiens, by their help we lost some > > of > > our abilities, but on the other hand we developed > > some > > sense. Yet maybe more carefully decoding information > > that carried by sounds could be one of them also. Or > > in one word, we lose or save some of the visual > > ability but for an exchange, we gain a more > > sensitive > > auditory ability. The current human beings of the > > world has found no different of speak-listen organ > > among different races. Chao Yuan Ren had taught > > Chinese language in America for several decades, yet > > he found that only one student couldn’t utter the > > tone > > properly. It did not to say that he was unable to > > use > > the tones. For when Chao taught him the first tone > > of > > Mandarin, he always repeating in second tone, and > > when > > taught him the third tone of mandarin, he always > > repeating in fourth tone. I thought that it does not > > originate from articulate organ but by tradition. > > The > > best example is that when we teach children > > alphabetic > > letters, we set all the 26 letters to music, in > > order > > to help them to remember. > > Currently, the articulate and auditory organ of > > all > > humankind is exactly the same, but no one dare say > > that after long period evolution, with different > > languages, they will still be the same. > > The power of military can beat a country, the > > power > > of economy can weaken a country, but the power of > > reason can cause geno-sui-cide. > > > > >=== message truncated === > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Everything you'll ever need on one web page >from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts >http://uk.my.yahoo.com
_________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com

Reply

Thomas R. Wier <trwier@...>