Re: Neanderthal and PIE
|From:||Falcata Lusa <falcata.lusa@...>|
|Date:||Sunday, October 12, 2008, 21:05|
First of all, please remember that this are only suppositions focused on the
creation of a conlang for a fictional alternative pre-history of our planet.
2008/10/11 Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@...>
> It's not impossible (...)
Good enough for me :)
> The time between now and the oldest
> (fairly controversial) estimate for the age of PIE, 12,000 years, is
> only about half the distance between that time and the age of
> the most recent Neanderthal fossils (30,000 years).
According to the wikipedia there are some fossil evidence with 24,500 years
of Neanderthal in SW Europe. That would reduce the distance by 5,500 years
to a comfortable 12,500 years, placing PIE halfway from Neanderthal language
to modern languages. If Neanderthals had a language, even a rudimentary one,
and if they would cross their paths with the Cro-Magnons, there might have
been some sort of borrowings from either side
> Taking the
> more common estimate of the age of PIE, 6000 years, there
> would be 24,000 years between the last Neanderthals and the
> speakers of PIE; plenty of time for any language to change
> beyond recognition multiple times, or fission into many languages
> so divergent that their relationship is no longer even slightly
I agree with you. I'm definitely not trying to imply that Neanderthal
Language (NL) was the sole origin of PIE, but only to establish the
possibility that PIE was in fact influenced by NL.
Neanderthals culture changed very little before the arrival of Cro-Magnon,
and that could somehow explain the slow evolution of the language. If the
environment doesn't change much, and no new techologies appear, is there
realy a necessity to evolve our way to comunicate?
2008/10/11 Jörg Rhiemeier <joerg_rhiemeier@...>
> I think we are dealing with an entirely meaningless coincidence
I thought that there were no coincidences on our world... :P
> PIE probably was spoken about 6000 years ago; estimates
> of an earlier age can be ruled out (IMHO) because the vocabulary
> of PIE as it can be reconstructed reveals that the "Proto-Indo-
> Europeans" practiced agriculture, used wheeled vehicles and knew
> at least the metals copper, silver and gold.
We now have words for computer, cellphone, snorkel, robot, internet and
still that alone is not proof that our language appeared during the 20th
> As Jim Henry has
> already pointed out, Neanderthals belong to a much earlier time.
Indeed, but as I said before I'm not saying that Neanderthal would have
spoken PIE. Only that parts of their language might have passed on to
Pre-...-pre-PIE, and somehow survived.
Also, the Neanderthals died out and were not the ancestors of
> any humans living today, and I think there is some evidence that
> the Neanderthals were not fully sapient and probably did not
> speak a language of the same kind as the languages known to us.
Not yet proven either way... There's a theory that states we have bits and
pieces of Neanderthal DNA.