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Re: Two retroflex series?

From:BP Jonsson <bpj@...>
Date:Sunday, January 5, 2003, 15:30
Sorry for replying to an old post.  I'm going thru backmail after a while
of preoccupation with Conculture and the Real World(tm)...

At 18:58 23.12.2002 +0000, Jan van Steenbergen wrote:

> --- Pablo David Flores skrzypszy: > > > > I would like to add a series of retroflexes to the language. I was > > > wondering if there are any natural languages that distinguish points of > > > articulation between different sets of retroflexes, such as a series of > > > retroflex stops with tounge reaching for top of hard-palate versus a > series > > > with toung reaching for soft-palate? > > > > My idea is that the latter are fairly uncomfortable and probably > > not contrastive enough, but am I right? > >I think you are right; it is not impossible, but not very convenient. I would >be surprised if no natlang at all had such a feature, but I would be even more >surprised if many natlangs had it. >IMO, those two series of retroflexes can be made in a much easier fashion: by >distinguishing between apical and laminal position of the tongue. That would >work not only for the retroflexes, but also, in particular, for dentals and >alveolars. > >Jan
Some dialects of Swedish distinguish -- or used to distinguish, since dialects are dying out :-( -- sublamino-postalveolar sounds from sublamino-palatal sounds. The standard Swedish retroflexes are sublamino-postalveolar, so the acoustic effect is that the sublamino-palatals (usu. called 'cacuminals') are "even more retroflex". HTH / B.Philip Jonsson B^)> -- (delete X!) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ No man forgets his original trade: the rights of nations and of kings sink into questions of grammar, if grammarians discuss them. -Dr. Samuel Johnson (1707 - 1784)