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Re: CHAT: Measurements (was: Re: CHAT: browsers)

From:Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
Date:Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 8:37
En réponse à Tristan <kesuari@...>:

> > As opposed to non-phonemic palatisation? How do can you get that one?
Non-phonemic palatalisation is the kind of phenomenon like Quebecois French /petit/ pronounced [p@tsi]. The palatalisation is phonetic but not phonemic, as it is automatic.
> Or > do you mean that /pj/ and /p_j/ are different phonemes? >
Exactly. The first is a cluster, while the second is a single sound. Note that Maggel makes even more distinctions, since it also distinguishes a group approximant+vowel from a diphtongue. So in Maggel [pja], [p_ja] and [pI_a] are all different.
> Oh, and on a vaguely related note, are the pronunciations at > <> proper?
As good as they probably can get :)) . I can hear things
> happening with all the other groups, but the palatals group sounds > like > various interesting things done with the alveolars (like [c] sounds > like > [tS] and [J\] or [J] like [d_j] or [n_j]). Or am I just randomly > hearing > them in English? >
It's just that palatals are difficult to distinguish from postalveolars (have you tried the alveolo-palatal fricatives? To me they are indistinguishable from postalveolars) for people who don't have them already (the palate is quite a busy place ;))) ). But with a little training you can distinguish them easily. I do now for instance, and I didn't just two years ago (result: Maggel has inherited palatal fricatives, along with postalveolar fricatives and alveolar ones, as well as clusters [sC], obtained from palatalisation of [s] ;))) ). Christophe. Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.