Re: CHAT: Measurements (was: Re: CHAT: browsers)
|From:||Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>|
|Date:||Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 8:37|
En réponse à Tristan <kesuari@...>:
> As opposed to non-phonemic palatisation? How do can you get that one?
Non-phonemic palatalisation is the kind of phenomenon like Quebecois
French /petit/ pronounced [p@tsi]. The palatalisation is phonetic but not
phonemic, as it is automatic.
> do you mean that /pj/ and /p_j/ are different phonemes?
Exactly. The first is a cluster, while the second is a single sound. Note that
Maggel makes even more distinctions, since it also distinguishes a group
approximant+vowel from a diphtongue. So in Maggel [pja], [p_ja] and [pI_a] are
As good as they probably can get :)) .
I can hear things
> happening with all the other groups, but the palatals group sounds
> various interesting things done with the alveolars (like [c] sounds
> [tS] and [J\] or [J] like [d_j] or [n_j]). Or am I just randomly
> them in English?
It's just that palatals are difficult to distinguish from postalveolars (have
you tried the alveolo-palatal fricatives? To me they are indistinguishable from
postalveolars) for people who don't have them already (the palate is quite a
busy place ;))) ). But with a little training you can distinguish them easily.
I do now for instance, and I didn't just two years ago (result: Maggel has
inherited palatal fricatives, along with postalveolar fricatives and alveolar
ones, as well as clusters [sC], obtained from palatalisation of [s] ;))) ).
Take your life as a movie: do not let anybody else play the leading role.