Re: Chevraqis: a sketch

On Thu, 10 Aug 2000, daniel andreasson wrote:

> Yoon Ha Lee wrote:
>
> > No articles, but 4 cases, which may be a mistake:
> > nominative (transitive subject, intransitive voluntary subject): -(r)a
> >   (-ra if something ends with a vowel, occuring generally in names or
> >   irregular nouns)
> >
> > accusative (transitive object, intransitive involuntary subject): -(r)e
> >
> > genitive (ownership possessive): -(r)en
> >
> > locative (places/times or non-ownership possessive): -(r)ad
>
> I have to ask (since I'm an "active" case marking nut): What if the subject
> of a _transitive_ verb is involuntary? Would you still mark it with nominative?
> Or would you do as with intransitives and mark it with the accusative?
> If that is the case, then what would happen to the object of the transitive
> verb? Would it get the genitive or locative case? Or would it remain in
> the accusative?
To be honest, I haven't the faintest.  :-/  If "active" is what it's
called, I got it from a Ranto on Esperanto (which I know by reputation,
but don't speak/write in any sense) on the Web.  I'll have to track down
the author and URL.  It discussed ways different languages could divide
up subject/object, I think.

Now that I know what the system is *called,* I think I'll go look it up
and see how some natlangs have handled transitives.

I think half the battle is *learning* terminology so you can look it up!
(I encountered this in musical composition, too.  It was a revelation to
me when I learned hemiola.)

> > I'm using "reportive" to mean something that the speaker has witnessed,
> > or a "fundamental truth" (generally religious, sometimes used in
> > discussing math or philosphy).
>
> I think that would be the "gnomic aorist" then, which has been discussed
> (very thoroughly!) on the Elfling list? (I don't expect you to know this
> Yoon, but perhaps the other guys both on Elfling and Conlang know.)
> Though it also sounds like an "evidential". I think you can read about
> those in the LCK, which I think you said you had. Perhaps "experienced
> aorist" or "perceptive aorist"? :)
Hmm.  Can something be both evidential and "gnomic aorist"?  Must look
this up.

> > Sorry this looks so screwy.  :-/  It's a slow and rewarding, but
> > sometimes painful, learning process....
>
> I think it looks nice.
Thank you.  OC it will probably undergo numerous revisions, but that's
half the fun.

Cheers,
YHL