Re: Sapir-WhorFreakiness

On Sat, 21 Aug 2004 08:45:50 EDT, Doug Dee <amateurlinguist@...> wrote:

>
> The issue is their lack of morphologically simple color terms.  They do not
> lack the ability to perceive & describe colors.
>
> Can you read Everett's pdf file, or is it incompatible with your software?
>
> Doug
>
I think it was also mentioned that they don't generalize like "red is
good, green is bad" (in regards to fruit) but they look at the
species. Which could account for lack of color terms (and flowers may
be unimportant... although often flowers are lacking on the forest
floor since most trees flower in the upper canopy, or along their
trunks (cauliflorescence). Jungles aren't as colorful as one would
think, they're pretty monotonous tones of green and black:

For instance, we could do the same with various plant species I know
and disregard color all together:

Eat the fruits of Prunus ilicifolia (edible), not Prunus laurocerasus
(poisonous). Butia capitata and Phoenix dactilifera are edible,
Caryota ochlandra is toxic!  It is good to eat the fruit of Musa
'Saba' but Musa sikkimensis has worthless fruit.

So if the Piraha are indeed determining what's poisonous or what's
good to eat by plant species instead of by color they may not need
color terms at all. Also color isn't always an indicator of ripeness
fruit wise (or even toxicity.. Caryota ochlandra (and the entire
Caryota genus of palms) have bright red tempting fruits that are full
of oxalate crystals which burn the mouth (and even the hands if
handled).

Even then, they may simply say to children they are teaching "pick
these fruits when they look this way" or "pick them when they fall to
the ground" or even "when they pull easily from the tree"

The other side of the coin: most societies that "live off the land"
tend to know how to tell exactly which plant species is which, even
from closely related plants or those that look superficially similar,
so i'm not surprised the Piraha would be the same way. First world
nation societies rely a lot less on plants for survival, which
explains why people often think Cordyline austalis is a palm when it
isn't even closely related (it's allied with lillies and agaves more).

Also, if the Piraha are indeed colour blind then color wouldn't be a
useful indicator in gathering fruits (at least).

Apologies if i've babbled myself into a tangental thread with little
to do with what's being discussed :).

--
Something gets lost when you translate,
It's hard to keep straight, perspective is everything

- Invisible ink - Aimee Mann -