Theiling Online    Sitemap    Conlang Mailing List HQ   

Re: Exocentric Derivation in Gweydr

From:Roger Mills <rfmilly@...>
Date:Friday, February 3, 2006, 5:11
David Peterson wrote:
(with snips)
> > Gweydr now has five prefixes which look something like what > you have below: > > bwe- > kja- > tow- > ruw- > Tij- > > The vowels of the first four can change based on predictable > phonlogical principles, but other than that, the prefixes are invariant. > These prefixes have no meaning at all. They combine with stems, > however, to form different words. Here are some examples: > > Root: m6ks "berry" > bwEm6ks "blackcurrant" > kj6m6ks "cranberry" > towm6ks "blueberry" > ruwm6ks "redcurrant" > Tijm6ks "gooseberry" > > So here you have a set of five prefixes which simply derive different > berries from the root "berry.... suffix to form the word "gemstone", and > with the five prefixes, it forms > a class of precious gemstones: > > Root: sine (from sineby, "gemstone") > bwezine "ruby" > kj&zine "diamond" > t8wsine "emerald" > riwsine "sapphire" > Tijsine "amethyst" >
The mind boggles ;-))) So suppose in English we had-- blackberry meaning "strawberry" redberry meaning "blueberry" greenberry meaning "raspberry" greyberry meaning "currant" etc. or: blackbird meaning "cardinal" redbird meaning "canary" greenbird meaning "blackbird" etc....
> > The point is that if you combine all the /bwe-/ [black-] words, or all the > /kja-/ [red-] words, and try to find a common meaning amongst them, > you'll come up empty.
Yes...that's my problem. Additionally, there are no systematic relations
> between, say, the /bwe-/ word and the /kja-/ word in one paradigm > when compared to the /bwe-/ word and the /kja-/ word of a > different paradigm.
Yes...ditto However, the words are clearly separable
> into prefix and root, and can be grouped by prefix and root.
But to what purpose?
> Finally, though the prefixes in each group can be grouped together > semantically...,
In what way? I see no relationship between bwe- in bwEm6ks and bwe- in bwezine (or any of the others, snipped).
> So, that's it. Just something to add. This strategy is kind of halfway > between noun classes...
I can see that it might develop into something like the Bantu system (or Indonesian numerical classifiers) where there is (or originally was) _some_ relation between the prefix and the head. Perhaps Bantu ki- originally applied to long thin things like knives, but over time has come to include things that aren't long and thin-- like my favorite (old chestnut dept.), kiplefti, pl. viplefti 'traffic circle(s)'. Just like Indon. "buah" 'fruit' counts fruits of course, but also houses, cars, padlocks and much more. It's kind of like the system of English
> Latinate prefixes (ab-, ad-, pre-, trans-) and Latinate roots (cur, mit, > fer), except that there's more meaning associated with the Latinate > prefixes than with the Gweydr prefixes. >
Yes, even if we use the prefixes with non-Latin words: prewash, absquatulate, disremember. Even things like -gate and -Vteria form untransparent compds., but still have recoverable meanings. Perhaps I've spent too long with my literal-minded Kash friends, but I can't see a system like this occurring in any lang, nat or con-- wild and crazy though it be :-))))))))))))))))))) And BTW, isn't "rocky road" at least metaphoric? isn't r.r. ice-cream loaded with big chunks of something (like hard candies?) Also, there's a common decorative plant called "Dusty Miller"--if you meet a guy named XXX Miller, it's a reasonable bet his nickname is Dusty.... Now, _that_ would be obscure to many.


David J. Peterson <dedalvs@...>