Re: CONLANG Digest - 5 Nov 2000
|From:||Eric Christopherson <raccoon@...>|
|Date:||Saturday, November 11, 2000, 8:13|
On Thu, Nov 09, 2000 at 01:43:30AM -0500, Roger Mills wrote:
> Eric Christopherson wrote:
> >On Tue, Nov 07, 2000 at 01:23:06AM -0500, Muke Tever wrote:
> >> Are "regular" metathesis changes common?
> >> Hadwan A has *[affricate][liquid] -> [sibilant][stop][liquid], basically
> >> meaning stuff like */tsr/ becomes /str/.
> >I really like that change :)>
> But a little unnatural, unless the /ts/ is a cluster, not a unit.
> (Imagine Engl. /c/ [tS] "undoing" itself to become [St].....?) Still, it
> could result from historical changes: suppose proto-clusters *t+s+vowel
> and *t+s+r+vowel; (Rule 1) the cluster *t+s metathesizes /__r; (Rule 2) the
> cluster *t+s > unit /ts/.
But we've talked before (at length!) about the old Greek /zd/, arising from
sources such as */dZ/, so you never know...
> >So far I've been thinking of a view different kinds of regular metathesis
> >for Dhak, one of which I've told you (Muke) about already:
> > #CCwV > #CuCV, #CCjV > #CiCV, where CC is a combination deemed to be
> >unpronounceable (or impronounceable, or maybe impronuntiable!) at the
> >beginning of a breath group (I haven't worked out yet which groups will be
> > Examples: ksabu > ksObu > ksO:b > kswOb > kusOb
> > btari > btEri > btE:r > btjEr > bitEr
> >I think it's pretty cool, but would anyone care to comment on
> >how realistic it is?>
> Nice. It also admits of several analyses. One possibility: ksabu
> > ksaub (met.!!) > ksO:b then / kswOb > (2d met.!!) kusOb, as you have it.
I think the a>O change is going to be due to assimilation, not metathesis;
however, this allows for more interesting metathesis with glides at that
ksabwi > ksawbi > (option 1) ksO:bi (the glide blocks the -i from
influencing the a)
(option 2) ksO:bi > ks9:bi > ks9:b (9 being X-SAMPA for
> Or: ....ksO:b > k@sO:b (cluster breaking) > kusob (assimilation)
> Or: ...ksO:b > k[w]sO:b (anticipatory rounding) > kusob
Good work... I've thought of similar possibilities before, and yes, there
is definitely more than one way to get the result I'm talking about. Perhaps
I could leave the exact details up to conlinguists :)
> Both these strike me as quite natural possibilities, and are similar to an
> apparent metathesis in a group of langs. in eastern Indonesia that I've
> mentioned before. E.g. ku- '1st sg.' + dávar (made-up verb, can't find
> dictionary) > kdwávar 'I (whatever)'. Presumably the rounding of the
> prefix's /u/ carries over onto the initial /d/, then the pretonic /u/
> deletes. Similarly, mi- '2nd pl' + davar > mdjavar.
That's really cool to hear. Interesting that it goes the opposite way. I
seem to recall something in Navajo involving somewhat regular morphological
metathesis also, and I remember reading on the list that Georgian had a
metathesis of /o/, which later became a consonant or semivowel (spelled <v>,
not sure how it's pronounced).
> ObConlang: Kash has quite a bit of metasethis ;-), mostly involving /r/ +
> cons. e.g. /axar/ 'pain' + -mi 'my' > /axamri/ pron/written "ahambri" 'my
> pain'; /amar/ 'age, era; eon' + /-kale/ 'adj. formant' > /amakrale/
> 'eternal'. As well as some fossilized forms like /liweNgi/ 'throughout,
> for a period of...' < /liwek/ 'long' + -ni '3d sg. poss.', lit. 'its
Eric Christopherson / *Aiworegs Ghristobhorosyo