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Re: augment?

From:Aidan Grey <arachnis@...>
Date:Monday, January 24, 2000, 18:44
Irina Rempt wrote:

> On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Aidan Grey wrote: > > > per 'to say' > > Pres. : peran 'i say', peram 'we say', peras 'you say', per 'he/she/it > > says', pere 'he says', pera 'she says', pera 'they say', perad 'he/she/it said > > (4th person)' > > Ipf. : epheran, epheram, epheras, epher, ephere, ephera, ephera, epherad > > Funny, in Valdyan 'peran' means "I may" :-) The other persons don't > match, though. Is 'you' singular as well as plural, or is there a > separate "y'all say" (and if so, what is it)? >
yep, 2nd covers pl and sg. And I decided after I posted to delete the 4th except as an object. Pronominal objects are prefixed, by the way. For example, aedh 'to fear', has saedhan 'I fear you': s-'you' aedh 'fear' -an 'I'. At one point yesterday, I gad a neat revelation that doesn't work now, but it was neat at the time! Aedh comes from OI ad-ágathar. Final cons and V dropped, and once ending came on, the unacc a dropped leaving g and th next to each other, this gth > gdh, and with the previous endings I had before changes last night, avagdhu=Afagddu, from Welsh myth, son of Cerridwen, and meant 'we fear ourselves'! Afagddu was the god of fear, of the shadow in the self! neat, huh?
> > All pronounced like you would in english. > > That makes for a lot of different pronunciations! Can you manage > ASCII-IPA? >
here's a few to get the idea across: peran /pe'r@n/ or /per'r@n/, ephere /@fe'r@/ or /@fer'r@), sayam /sa'y@m/ , eshai /@ Saj'/. The last two mean 'we seek' and 'he/she/it sought' respectively.
> > Notice that the 3p -r is absorbed into the preceding r in per, that ai > ay > > before a vowel. Imperfect is formed from an augment plus lenition. > > Looks like aspiration to me; what happens with /k-/, /g-/, /b-/ and, > perhaps more to the point, /f-/ or /h-/? >
Aspiration and lenition are often used, especially in reference to the same changes in Irish. /k-/ c > /x-/ ch /g/ > /j/ /b/ > /v/ /f/,/h/ > null
> > Possibly add a vowel after the ending > > proper, to stimulate those "secondary" endings of PIE: "ayanne, ayasse, ???, ???, > > ???, ayadhe"? > > Cool! Makes them look a bit exotic, though, as if they mean something > more abstruse than mere imperfect. >
Yeah, these are some of my faves. I just don't know what to do with the 3sg forms so they're not identical to the present. After posting this to the list, I played with Tolkien's marker -ne, which also looks good to me. Examples: ainen, ainem, aines, aine, aine, aina, ainar (<ai 'drive cattle'+-ne) perren, perrem, perres, perre, perre, perra, perra(r) (<per 'say'+ne) lhainden, lhaindem, lhaindes, lhainde, lhainde, lhainda, lhaindar (<lhaid 'dig'+ne)
> > Do you folks like "peran" or "perran" better? > > I like "peran" better, but I'm biased :-) >
I think I'm just a bit more in favor of the single r myself! Aidan