|From:||Aidan Grey <arachnis@...>|
|Date:||Monday, January 24, 2000, 18:44|
Irina Rempt wrote:
> On Sun, 23 Jan 2000, Aidan Grey wrote:
> > per 'to say'
> > Pres. : peran 'i say', peram 'we say', peras 'you say', per 'he/she/it
> > says', pere 'he says', pera 'she says', pera 'they say', perad 'he/she/it said
> > (4th person)'
> > Ipf. : epheran, epheram, epheras, epher, ephere, ephera, ephera, epherad
> Funny, in Valdyan 'peran' means "I may" :-) The other persons don't
> match, though. Is 'you' singular as well as plural, or is there a
> separate "y'all say" (and if so, what is it)?
yep, 2nd covers pl and sg. And I decided after I posted to delete the 4th except as
an object. Pronominal objects are prefixed, by the way. For example, aedh 'to fear',
has saedhan 'I fear you': s-'you' aedh 'fear' -an 'I'. At one point yesterday, I gad a
neat revelation that doesn't work now, but it was neat at the time!
Aedh comes from OI ad-ágathar. Final cons and V dropped, and once ending came on,
the unacc a dropped leaving g and th next to each other, this gth > gdh, and with the
previous endings I had before changes last night, avagdhu=Afagddu, from Welsh myth, son
of Cerridwen, and meant 'we fear ourselves'! Afagddu was the god of fear, of the shadow
in the self! neat, huh?
> > All pronounced like you would in english.
> That makes for a lot of different pronunciations! Can you manage
here's a few to get the idea across: peran /pe'r@n/ or /per'r@n/, ephere /@fe'r@/
or /@fer'r@), sayam /sa'y@m/ , eshai /@ Saj'/. The last two mean 'we seek' and
'he/she/it sought' respectively.
> > Notice that the 3p -r is absorbed into the preceding r in per, that ai > ay
> > before a vowel. Imperfect is formed from an augment plus lenition.
> Looks like aspiration to me; what happens with /k-/, /g-/, /b-/ and,
> perhaps more to the point, /f-/ or /h-/?
Aspiration and lenition are often used, especially in reference to the same changes
/k-/ c > /x-/ ch
/g/ > /j/
/b/ > /v/
/f/,/h/ > null
> > Possibly add a vowel after the ending
> > proper, to stimulate those "secondary" endings of PIE: "ayanne, ayasse, ???, ???,
> > ???, ayadhe"?
> Cool! Makes them look a bit exotic, though, as if they mean something
> more abstruse than mere imperfect.
Yeah, these are some of my faves. I just don't know what to do with the 3sg forms
so they're not identical to the present. After posting this to the list, I played with
Tolkien's marker -ne, which also looks good to me. Examples:
ainen, ainem, aines, aine, aine, aina, ainar (<ai 'drive cattle'+-ne)
perren, perrem, perres, perre, perre, perra, perra(r) (<per 'say'+ne)
lhainden, lhaindem, lhaindes, lhainde, lhainde, lhainda, lhaindar (<lhaid 'dig'+ne)
> > Do you folks like "peran" or "perran" better?
> I like "peran" better, but I'm biased :-)
I think I'm just a bit more in favor of the single r myself!