Re: CHAT: IPA Question

On Thu, Jan 30, 2003 at 12:58:55AM +1100, Tristan wrote:
> H. S. Teoh wrote:
>
> >>I didn't think most dialects would distinguish these two, or if the did,
> >>this would be the fronter... You speak stupid English, Joe :P
> >>
> >>
> >You mean he speaks non-Australian. :-P
> >
> Yeah, that's what I said, stupid English.
No, no, you don't get it. To *me*, Australian is more "stupid" than
American.

<flamesuit on> ;-)

> >Where I grew up, 'good' is [gu:d] and 'lute' is [ljut].
> >
> Okay then... is the vowel in 'good' lengthened because of the /d/, then?
> e.g. would foot be /fu:t/ or /fut/?
It's [fut] or [fUt]. The former what I grew up with, the latter what the
local Canadians say. [f8t] is another alternative. I don't think you can
make any generalizations based on spelling, because English pronunciation
has drifted so far away from spelling that such generalizations aren't
reliable.

[snip]
> >Although around these parts it's more often pronounced [bIrd] or [br=d].
> >
> Freaks! :P
LOL...

[snip]
> >It's not just Americans; Canadians also say [hr=I] or [hVrI].
> >
> [hVrI] I can deal with, but [hr=I] sounds like her-ry.
But there's no such word as "herry", so nobody cares. :-P

[snip]
> >At least 'day' and 'die' don't rhyme in my idiolect! :-P
> >
> They don't in mine, either. /d&i/ and /d6i/. It's not my fault if you
> think /d&i/ sounds like your 'die'.
Well! It's not *my* fault that the first time I heard an Australian
greeting, I thought the person said "go die, mite!" ;-)

[snip]
> >[au]?! That's really odd. The vowel in 'coat' is [o:] or at worst [o@].
> >
> Perfectly normal for broader Aussie English is spoken by altogether too
> many people from these 'ere parts (outer south-eastern suburbs of
> Melbourne).
Aha, Melbourne. Been there, heard that. :-P

> >What's "dark l"?
> >
> Veralised? The variety found when not before vowels in many English
> dialects... I believe it's the sort in Polish before Polish saw fit to
> turn it into /w/.
OK, I only have a faint clue what a velarised 'l' might be. I don't think
I've encountered it in English. Not that I noticed, anyway.

[snip]
> >>/@i;/   been, [i] when unstressed (e.g. family [f&:mli])
> >>
> >>
> >That's weird. For me, /been/ is always [i] or [I].
> >
> No it's not, perfectly normal... A phonetically monophthongal
> phonemically diphthong is stupid, it's just sensible that we'd want to
> diphthongise it. (/0;/ is just a bit of a slacker...)
Well! How do you tell "been" from "bean" then? At least around these parts
the former is [bIn] and the latter is [bi:n].

> >>/I:/    beer, feel (often [I@])
> >>
> >>
> >For me it's [bi@r].
> >
> I call that a speech impediment. :P
No, that's more authentic. (In the colonial British sense.) So there! :-P

[snip]
> >>/e:/    hair
> >>
> >>
> >Weird, I have /&/ here. (Being a-e as you state below.)
> >
> Another one of those stupid speech impediments of yours. Learn to talk
> proper!
LOL...

[snip]
> >>/&/     can (aux.) (being the a-e ligature)
> >>
> >>
> >We agree here. :-)
> >
> No we don't, they differ phonetically...
?

> >>/&i/    cane (Americans often hear this as kine)
> >>
> >>
> >That's strange. I'd also hear it as "kine". My vowel is [eI] here.
> >
> Yeah, well... you're one of *them* aren't you? Out to get the rest of us!
Oh yeah, we're [a:t@ g&tS@]. :-P

[snip]
> >>/&:/    can (n.)
> >>
> >>
> >Yep.
> >
> Really? I was under the impression that Americans were foolish enough to
> diphthongise that into something like /&@/, and your speech seems
> awfully American...
"American"? LOL... obviously you don't realize that Californians can't
understand Bostonians, and both can't understand Texans. And the Kanucks
among whom I live despise all three. :-)

[snip]
> Tristan. (well, that was fun, wasn't it? Take any of it personally and,
> if I ever raise the funds to find you, you probably should see a doctor
> afterwards. People who take humor personally deserve what's coming to
> them.)
Personal? LOL... I was just [p_hleIn= @lo:N wiDja]. :-P


T

--
Life is complex. It consists of real and imaginary parts. -- YHL

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