Re: CHAT: IPA Question

H. S. Teoh wrote:

>No, no, you don't get it. To *me*, Australian is more "stupid" than
>American.
>
><flamesuit on> ;-)
>
You, presumably, haven't heard of one George W. Bush, or the people who
voted him in.

>>>Where I grew up, 'good' is [gu:d] and 'lute' is [ljut].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Okay then... is the vowel in 'good' lengthened because of the /d/, then?
>>e.g. would foot be /fu:t/ or /fut/?
>>
>>
>
>It's [fut] or [fUt]. The former what I grew up with, the latter what the
>local Canadians say. [f8t] is another alternative. I don't think you can
>make any generalizations based on spelling, because English pronunciation
>has drifted so far away from spelling that such generalizations aren't
>reliable.
>
No, true, but it seems you speak one of those dodgy dialects that have a
stronger correlation between length and voicedness of following
consonants than mine does.

>>[hVrI] I can deal with, but [hr=I] sounds like her-ry.
>>
>>
>But there's no such word as "herry", so nobody cares. :-P
>
Nor is [bremoir@n], but if I went around saying that for 'cucumber',
you'd be excused for not understanding me.

>Well! It's not *my* fault that the first time I heard an Australian
>greeting, I thought the person said "go die, mite!" ;-)
>
Sure it is. I've never heard 'g'day mate' as 'go die, mite', why should you?

>Aha, Melbourne. Been there, heard that. :-P
>
Best city in the land, wouldn't you say? (Note: if you answer
incorrectly, it will be plainly obvious that you're a happy-snappy
tourist, and uneducated as well, so I'll be forced to keep your opinions
in the lowest esteem. Not that I don't already, Australian stupider than
American indeed...)

>OK, I only have a faint clue what a velarised 'l' might be. I don't think
>I've encountered it in English. Not that I noticed, anyway.
>
Does 'velarized' help any? Some sort of co-articulation happening with
the velar and the alveolar areas?

>[snip]
>
>
>Well! How do you tell "been" from "bean" then? At least around these parts
>the former is [bIn] and the latter is [bi:n].
>
Stress, maybe length... the recitation form of 'been' and 'bean' are the
same, but when spoken in a bunch of other words, one woul be [bin] and
the other [b@i;n] I guess...

>>>>/I:/    beer, feel (often [I@])
>>>>
>>>>
>>>For me it's [bi@r].
>>>
>>>
>>I call that a speech impediment. :P
>>
>>
>No, that's more authentic. (In the colonial British sense.) So there! :-P
>
Bah, more authentic schmore authentic. Smith's Chips may be the
original, but Thins are the best. (Not counting things like
fish-and-chips chips (like french fries, only different for you
Merkins), pringles, corn chips.)

>[snip]
>
>
>>>>/&/     can (aux.) (being the a-e ligature)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>We agree here. :-)
>>>
>>>
>>No we don't, they differ phonetically...
>>
>>
>?
>
The two sounds, though very similar, are different. Trust me. Americans
(and Canadians, and anyone else who happens to live in that general
direciton) have a stupid-sounding /&/. I dunno what exactly the
difference is, but based on the fact that my [e] has run up in
comparison with your [E], and Kiwi [I] is the equivalent of my [e] (so
they say nick for neck), and their [e] is the equivalent of my [&] (so
they say ken for can), it would not suprise me if my [&] was higher than
yours.

If you followed that, congratulations. If not, I forgive you.

>[snip]
>
>
>>>>/&:/    can (n.)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Yep.
>>>
>>>
>>Really? I was under the impression that Americans were foolish enough to
>>diphthongise that into something like /&@/, and your speech seems
>>awfully American...
>>
>>
>"American"? LOL... obviously you don't realize that Californians can't
>understand Bostonians, and both can't understand Texans. And the Kanucks
>among whom I live despise all three. :-)
>
Oh yes, I did realise that, but 'American' refers to that variety of
American such is heard on both American and Canadian television shows.

>Personal? LOL... I was just [p_hleIn= @lo:N wiDja]. :-P
>
I imagined so, but there's too many people who simply wouldn't
understand, the fools...

Tristan.

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