Re: CHAT: IPA Question

en memo 2003:01:29 07.28.36 gozen (a.m.), paav'r f'tiig Yitzik
(isaacp@UKR.NET) graffii:

>Oh, Mighty Heaven, save us from English pronunciation threads!
>
>a tired Yitzik
    *snarfle!* wadda Job-job!!!... Oy Vey...  ;)

    "Excess is excrement. Excrement retained in the body is poison." - Ursula
Le Guin


en memo 2003:01:29 07.00.07 gogo (PM), Tristan (kesuari@YAHOO.COM.AU) graffii:

[h s teoh] >>LOL... I did exaggerate the Hokkien-tones part, though. That's
more >>like streetspeak; the educated elite tend to pronounce it closer to
British
>>(colonial British, not modern British).
>>
>So what exactly do you mean by colonial British? India, America, Canada,
>Australia and New Zealand were all British colonies at one stage or
>another, but you'd probably be as hard-pressed to make any
>generalisations about their speech than you could about their speech and
>Britain's speech.
hsteoh:
>English as taught in the school system, which was instituted during the
>British colonization. [ . . . ]
>Yes, but my original point was that the mangled English mixed with local
>dialects is not what's taught in the schools, but what happens on the
>streets. What's taught in the schools at least somewhat resembles how the
>British taught English during the colonial times.
    "Colonial British" in this _specific_ context means what is called
nowadays more precisely termed "South East Asian English" (SEAE). ("Colonial
British" is the older, patronizing term and somewhat _passé_, out-of-date,
even guache, etc. in this age of the post-Empire Commonwealth).
    BTW, SEAE - acrolect form (what was taught in British colonial schools) -
is my "mother-tongue" via both my parents (who were children in
British-Occupied Malaya, through the Japanese Occupation (WW2)... to
Malaysian Independence [1948 or '49 IIRC] into the early 1960's. In 1962,
they moved to London, England. In 1964, I was born. Moved to Houston, Texas,
USA in 1968. I have had severe "culture shock" ever since...).

en memo 2003:01:29 07.46.52 gozen, Lars Mathiesen (thorinn@DIKU.DK) graffii:

>[L\] is the velar lateral fricative, and [L] is the palatal one.
>Neither occurs in English, of course.
    Eh??  [L] is quite common for some English-sprekking peoples!!....
i.e. "pool" /pu:L/
    "school" /sku:L/
    "scroll" /skr@UL/
    "skull" /skVL/

    I definitely use /L/ for words like the ones I mention.
    I also have pretty distinct, contrasting bilabial nasal /m/ and
labiodental nasal /F/ phonemes in my speech:
    "mother" /mA:.T3:`/
    "musem" /Fju:z.i@F/
    "micro" /mI.kr\@U/
    "mnenomic" /FI.mAnIk/
    "damn" /d&F/
    "damper" /d&Fp3:`/

    Makes me sound like Commonwealth expat of "some kind/type" to some ... or
an rather odd New Englander a la Carl Sagan to others ... or a
"tall-bleedin'-Pommy" to those from the more godforsaken ocker-areas of Oz...
I have not a blinking clue to what the more racist Texas "rednecks" thought
as it was hard to even ask questions - much less even a cheery greeting -
while being "kicked to the curb" with cowboy boots...

Hanuman Zhang
WOG (Wiley Oriental Gentleman ;)
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