Re: CHAT: IPA Question

On Thu, Jun 20, 2002 at 10:01:10PM +0200, Christophe Grandsire wrote:
> En réponse à "H. S. Teoh" <hsteoh@...>:
[snip]
> > `u --> [u_^u] = [wu]
>
> Well well... [w] and [u_^] or not the same thing :( . [u_^] is purely labial,
> while [w] is labiovelar :(( .
Uhm, are you sure? From what I understand, the velar part comes from the
fact that [u] is a back vowel, and the labial part comes from the
roundedness. To my ears, at least.

> So in phonetic representation you mustn't confuse
> them (on the other hand, you can say that what phonemically is a "glidy" /u/ is
> phonetically [w] :)) ).
Are they really different? I was reading a site that claims [u_^] = [w].

> > `y --> [y_^y] = [jy]
>
> Here again, [y_^] is more [H] (the semi-vowel of French "nuit"). Quite
> different from [j]. So unless the pronunciation is really [Hy], you cannot use
> the [y_^y] description :((( .
Actually you're right, it's [Hy] not [jy]. My bad, for confusing [H] and
[j] :-) (I suppose I was thinking in terms of the roundedness of the [y]
beginning at the [j], effectively making it [H]. To my ears, that is.)

> > `i --> [i_^i] = [ji]
> >
>
> This one I agree on :)) .
OK, so we're on the same page. :-)

> Of course, non-syllabic high vowels are not exactly semi-vowels. But I don't
> think any language would distinguish them anyway.
Are they really different??

[snip]
> > And the plural of _aa'ri_ [a:r`i] ("foreignness", "otherness") is
> > _`aarii'_ [a_^a:r`i:]. Wow, it sure looks ugly in SAMPA. It'll look
> > much
> > nicer when typeset with TIPA, I promise! ;-)
> >
>
> Hehe, I long to see it (does it mean you have to retouch your article? You can
> do that if needed :)) ).
[snip]

No, this doesn't occur in that article. The only one that does occur in
the article is [Hy]. Actually, now that I think of it... I have [jy] in
the article, which should be [Hy]. *Sighhh* Alright, I'll fix it up.


T

--
Unlearning is a great learning.

Replies