Re: The Story of Guper the Foolish Troll

At 12:32 pm +0000 28/2/99, BP.Jonsson wrote:
>At 18:17 on 27.2.1999, Raymond A. Brown wrote:
>
>>
>> Presumably t, d, s, z and l are /c/, /J/, /S/, /Z/ and
>>/{vcd,pal,lat}/
>> respectively (I can't find a symbol for the latter in
>>Kirshenbaum ASCII
>> IPA).
>
>It would be [l;]!
Thanks.

>> But what exactly is r-palatal? Is it a palatalized version of
>>the
>> apical trill, i.e. the palatalized /r/ of Russian and Gaelic?
>
>It is possible to pronounce a palato-cacuminal(!) sulcal
>approximant, and IIRC some American English pronounce their /r/
>this way.  Maybe some Statesians who know their phonetics can
>fill us in?
Oh yes, there are many possibilities, that's why I asked for enlightenment.
Alas, tho dunn patrick did address some other points that I made, he's
still left me in the dark on this one.  AFAIK the Russian palatalized /r/
is always as I described, but the realization of "slender r" (i.e.
palatalized r) varies quite a bit from one dialect to another, I believe.

>(I also just tried a sulcal central palatal approximant, but it
>almost made me vomit! ;)
  :)

>>
>> Eh? Voiced glottal stop? Surely this is physically impossible,
>>since:
>
>The Nenc [nEn@ts] used to be ascribed this animal.  More recent
>sources (Catford) say that the two "glottals" of Nenc are
>actually EPIglottals, although they correspond to /?/ in other
>Samoyed languages.
Ah, stops made with the epiglottis!  Yep - such a stop could be voiced.
When one recalls that in Polynesian langs and, according to Yuen Ren Chao,
in Chinese /?/ corresponds in some languages to the /k/ of others, the Nenc
use of an epiglottal stop where related langs have glottal stops seems
hardly remarkable.

Thanks shedding some light.

Ray.