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Re: Hell hath no Fury (was: war and death are in my hand)

From:Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...>
Date:Wednesday, June 13, 2001, 13:49
On Wed, 13 Jun 2001 11:09:23 +0200 Christophe Grandsire
<christophe.grandsire@...> writes:
> > Does it seem possible that the first two doubly-articulated stops > would > > exist? I remember seeing /kp/ and it's voiced counterpart /gb/ in > > African languages, but i've never heard of /pt/ and /tk/. I can > > pronounce them easily enough...
> Labio-velar consonnants are really common. After all, the normal > articulation of > /w/ is not only labial but labio-velar, so its place of articulation > is the one > of [k_p] rather than [p]. I think they appear because the labial and > velar > articulations are far enough from each other to be used at the same > time without > much difficulty. With /p_t/, the two simultaneous articulations are > nearer to > each other, so they could produce a problem, but since the two > articulations are > made with different parts of the mouth (the lips and the tongue), I > think it > could be possible without much trouble. After all, maybe some Greek > dialects > pronounced the cluster /pt/ as a double articulation :) . As for > /t_k/, the > problem is that both articulations have to be made with the tongue, > and it seems > to me rather difficult to curve the tongue correctly to make both > articulations > at the same time. Maybe with a little training, but I would think > that such a > double-articulated consonnant should be much rarer than the other > two (in fact, > kp should be the most frequent, pt less frequent and tk the rarest > if you really > choose to keep them all). Maybe you should allow clusters as > allophones of the > double-articulated consonnants... > Christophe.
- Thanks, the frequencies idea makes sense... i was actually thinking about for some descendent languages, /pt/ could become linguolabial, and /tk/ could be come a velarized /t/ or maybe a palatal stop. -Stephen (Steg) "Word making is world making." ~ _The Beginning of Desire: Reflections on Genesis_ by Avivah Zornberg

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Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>