Re: Russian phonetics question [Was: What's SHCH?]

Stephen Mulraney wrote:

> Tristan Mc Leay wrote:
>
>> Stephen Mulraney wrote:
>
>
>>> about this have been quite firm that it's actually [\s:] (or something
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> counterpart, [\z:] or so. My question is not so much "is this true?"
>>
>
>
>> Hmm, what's [\s] and [\z]? Must we introduce entirely new ASCII-IPAs
>> that don't even seem to have the remotest similarity with SAMPA?
>
>
>
> Well, why not? I think this list has proved a fertile breeding ground of
> systems that aren't quite X-SAMPA :).

Well, SAMPA, X-SAMPA and CXS are all related so I'm fine if use any of
them... it's normally apparent when incompatible difference are used
(and if you use pure X-SAMPA and do happen to use a dialect of English
that has an open front rounded vowel in 'bat', well, you're a freak and
deserve to have to state what encoding you're using!).

> Actually, I usually stick to X-SAMPA plus one or two additions (which
> means may or may not be using the current version of CXS. I was nomail
> for a period during which I think some changes were made... Where can I
> see the current state of CXS, BTW?),

<http://cassowary.free.fr/Linguistics/cxschart.png>. 'Changes' are very
rarely made. In fact, apart from adding the alternative stress and tie
markings, I haven't changed it since it was uploaded. It's more meant to
be a codification of CXS that was in use when I created it to help
prevent confusion and prevent unnecessary drift from that.

> but on this occassion, influenced
> by my keymap for VIM, I managed to write the symbols backwards. I meant
> [s\:] and [z\:], not [\s:] and [\z:] :). In anycase, this accidental
> metathesis probably had the useful effect to forestalling any protests
> of the kind "Russian has [s_d_j_k], not [s\:]!"

:)

>
>> [kor\s]
>> would be very misleading indeed with yours.
>
>
> Hmm, let's not spead the connection between this cock-up and my name too
> far, now... I can just see it now: "Of course, I'm using Stephen
> Mulraney's systems, which, I know, is hopelessly ambiguous and
> completely unnecessary, but hey! I kind of like it! And flame him, not
> me."

Sorry... I assumed it was a cock-up till it came out twice entirely
differently!


--
| Tristan.               |       To be nobody-but-yourself in a world
| kesuari@yahoo!.com.au  |  which is doing its best to, night and day,
|                        |                 to make you everybody else---
|                        |          means to fight the hardest battle
|                        |            which any human being can fight;
|                        |                    and never stop fighting.
|                        |      --- E. E. Cummings, "A Miscellany"
|                        |
|                        |     In the fight between you and the world,
|                        |                             back the world.
|                        |      --- Franz Kafka,
|                        |         "RS's 1974 Expectation of Days"