Re: OT: Definitely Not YAEPT: English phoneme inventory?

 --- Ian Spackman wrote: > At 06:40 17/07/03, you wrote:
> >  --- "Mark J. Reed"  wrote:
> > > I'm looking for the ones that are phonemically
> > > distinct in *some*
> > > dialect.  I don't distinguish /O/ and /A/ either -
> > > [O] doesn't
> > > appear at all in my speech unless I'm intentionally
> > > imitating another
> > > dialect or speaking another language.  But I
> > > recognize that they're
> > > distinct English phonemes because in some dialects
> > > they're distinct.
> >
> >
> >Perhaps /Vi/ (and /Vu/?) in dialects with Canadian
> >rising.
>
>
> No, they aren't separate phonemes (well, assuming one believes in
> ordered
> rules): they're allophones of /ai/, /au/ before voiceless consonants.
Mostly true.  But in some speakers, including myself, there are a few
words that don't follow the pattern.  For example, I use [VI] in
"fire", where it is not followed by a voiceless consonant.  However, I
use [aI] in "wire" and most or all other "-ire" words, so "fire" and
"wire" etc. don't rhyme in my speech.  I've also observed informally
that Canadians who use [VI] in "fire" can hear the difference between
[VI] and [aI] fairly easily, while those who use [aI] in "fire" usually
can't ear the difference.

And when I was much less linguistically educated than I am now, and had
never heard of Canadian raising, I tried to design a writing system
based on Tolkien's Tengwar that would phonetically write the English I
speak, and I used separate symbols for the raised and unraised
diphthongs.  My improved knowledge of linguistics confirms that in
every other case, what I analyzed as separate sounds are actually
separate phonemes.

Don't know if that is actually any evidence that there might be a
phonemic distinction in some Canadian speakers, but I think it's
certainly hovering close to the borderline.


> Oh, and don't forget /x/ (I don't think I've seen that mentioned
> yet).
I use [x] in Scottish words like "loch", as well as in loans from
German, like "Bach" and "dachshund", and "Reich".

Estel

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