Re: PolyF and question

On Sat, 5 May 2007 23:01:37 -0700, David J. Peterson
<dedalvs@...> wrote:

>Jeff wrote:
><<
>Examples illustrating aspects:
>1. halen  "I ran."
>2. hâlen  "I was running."
>3. haulen  "I have run."
>4. hailen  "I'm about to run."
>
>My question is whether or not these stems look or sound too similar.
> >>
>
>I don't know how "â" is supposed to be pronounced, but I'm
>guessing [&] (and standard for the rest).  I'll assume that for the
>rest.
The circumflex indicates a long vowel. I'm considering qualitative differences
as well, such as [a] vs. [A], but haven't settled on anything.

>There certainly can be a stage in a language where this is a
>distinction.  If the vowels are distinct, and the diphthongs are
>distinct, then they are distinct, and can be used as such.  So if
>a language has a given number of stages, then at at least one
>point in its existence, there can be a stage where these are
>distinct.
>
>Bearing that in mind, I suppose the real question is can these
>remain distinct forever.
Yes, that's what I was trying to get at -- thanks.

>  I suppose it depends.  If I were a speaker
>of this language, and I spoke it with a bunch of other me-like
>speakers, then I think the following would happen:
>
>1. halen
>2. hâlen <-> haulen
>3. hailen
>
>That is, the imperfective and retrospective would come to be
>indistinguishable in pronunciation.  That's just my opinion.  If
>this were your orthography, though, I can imagine that this
>would be something that kids would have to learn by rote, so
>that they'd learn:
>
>"halen", perfective: ['ha.len]
>"hâlen", imperfective: ['h&.len]
>"haulen", retrospective: ['h&.len]
>"hailen", prospective: ['hai.len]
>
>And I'm sure kids would make mistakes:
>
>Complete the Dialog Below:
>A: Have you ever run a marathon?
>B: Yes, hâlen a marathon.
>
>Teacher: Not "hâlen", "haulen".
>
>I could also see a German/Frenchy-type merger like that below:
>
>1. halen
>2. hâlen <-> hailen
>3. haulen
>
>Which are pronounced:
>
>1. halen ['ha.len]
>2. hâlen/hailen ['he.len]
>3. haulen ['ho.len]
All these sound change suggestions are good. I'm also going to look at loss of
the length distinction.

>So you could go a number of ways with it.  Provided that first
>syllable is the most prominent, though, I don't see why at some
>stage of the language you shouldn't have them distinct.
Yes, the first syllable is the most prominent.

>
>-David
>**********************************************************
*********
>"A male love inevivi i'ala'i oku i ue pokulu'ume o heki a."
>"No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn."
>
>-Jim Morrison
>
>http://dedalvs.free.fr/