Re: Athena(i) Re: Transcription exercise

Benct Philip Jonsson wrote:
> Philip Newton skrev:
>  > On 9/25/06, Carsten Becker <carbeck@...> wrote:
>  >> From: "Remi Villatel" <maxilys@...> Sent: Friday,
>  >> September 15, 2006 8:32 PM
>  >>
>  >> > Amsterdam JatsērhdaV [ja.tsEx.dav] Athinai JatiyaI
>  >> > [jatiHa"i]
>  >>
>  >> It would be interesting to know the etymologies of these
>  >> city names.
>
>  > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athens says that the city was
>  > "[n]amed after goddess Athena," without going into
>  > details.
Yes, the name of the Goddess, Athene (to use the Homeric form - 8th cent
BCE) & Athens are certainly connected.

> The etymology is obscure to say the least, as evidenced by
> the gibberish theoris advanced at <http://tinyurl.com/ktv8n>
> (WP). It may well be pre-Greek.
This is purported to be the etymology of Athene Ἀθήνη /at_hE:nE:/ (1), a
trisyllabic name with acute on the vowel of the middle syllable. The
Homeric form derives, of course, from the older form Athana Ἀθάνα
/at_ha:na:/, which is the normal form in Doric. Had the Homeric form
prevailed in later Greek, then the modern name would be /a'Tini/ - but
it ain't because the modern name is derived from the later 5th century
BCE Attic form of the name (see below).

(1) the pitch accent is not noted in the phonemic transcriptions. The
word, being of non-IE origin (see below), simply had the 'default'
recessive accentuation.

The etymology of Athana is unknown. There is no doubt in my mind that it
is of pre-Greek (i.e. non-IE) origin. The formative element -a:n- is
found in other words of non-IE origin. But any speculation about the
precise origin and meaning of Athana is just that - speculation. We
simply don't know.

>  > (I note that the accent is different, though -- the
>  > goddess is Athiná in modern Greek, while the city is
>  > Athína. And the older name is plural: Athínai /
>  > Athê~nai -- but also has the accent on the penult, not
>  > the ultimate.)
That, as I said, is because the modern name of the goddess derives from
a later form, peculiar to Athens itself. The older Homeric form of the
name had the accent on the penult - just as the city always has.

>  > ...ah, the article goes on to claim: "In ancient Greek,
>  > the name of Athens was Ἀθῆναι-Athenai, plural of
>  > Ἀθηνά-Athene, the Attic name of the Goddess Athena.
No, that doesn't make sense and, indeed, gives an incorrect form. The
Attic name is Ἀθηνᾶ, with a circumflex on the final alpha. That
circumflex is important: it shows that this is a *contracted* form.
Indeed, it was originally Ἀθηναία /at_hE:naia:/, with recessive accent.

The plural of Ἀθηνᾶ would have been *Ἀθηναῖ, which ain't the name of the
city. However, Ἀθῆναι is the correct plural of Ἀθήνη, the goddess's
older name.

These may seem pedantic points, but in fact indicate to me that the
writer of the article was being hazy, muddled & inaccurate.

>  > The city's name may have been plural, like those of Θῆβαι-
>  > Thebai (Thebes) and Μυκῆναι-Mykenai (Mycenae),
>  > because it consisted of several parts." -- but doesn't
>  > explain the shifted accent.
The city's name was most certainly plural. There's no shifted accent to
explain - all forms use the default recessive accent.

> _Athe:nâ:_ the godess' name seems to come from a form with
> four syllables, probably _*atha:nája_,
No - tho it comes from a form with four syllables, indeed, it a
_regularly formed_ adjective derived from Ἀθήνη ~ Ἀθῆναι, namely
Ἀθηναῖoς (fem. Ἀθηναία /at_hE:naia:/) "of or pertaining to Athena."

In The Epic dialect the feminine was Ἀθηναίη in the Epic & Ionian
dialects; and we find in Homer Παλλὰς Ἀθηναίη = Pallas, [epithet of] Athena.

But the adjective Ἀθηναῖoς could also, of course, mean "of or pertaining
to Athens." The latter is precisely why the Athenians adopted Ἀθηναία ~
Ἀθηνᾶ as the name of _their_ goddess, rather than her older name Ἀθήνη; i.e.
ἡ Ἀθηναία (θεός)
the Athenian (goddess)

It's just plain state-sponsored propaganda    :)

She is _their_ goddess - they have her special protection, which is why
other Greeks should take note of what the Athenians say. Indeed the
other Greeks did so in this regard, since the Attic name, in its
contracted form, ousted all the older forms, and was the only one to
survive into the Koine and hence into modern Greek.

> which would then
> regularly become _*atha:náa_ and _*atha:nâ:_. The glides
> *j and *w and *h (usually < *s) regularly disappear between
> vowels in Greek. I'm not sure why the a-quality of the last
> vowel was preserved in Attic
Because the loss of intervocalic /i/ was much later and we have the
*regular* Attic feminine noun contraction from earlier -a(i)a, cf. mnâ
(μνᾶ) <-- mnáa (μνάα) /mnaa:/ (note again the recessive accent).

[snipped - 'cos its's wrong  ;) ]

> Ἀθήνη _Athé:ne:_ that looks more 'regular' as a
> singular corresponding to _Athê:nai_,
It is nor merely more regular. It is regular.

> but I'd bet it's analogical.
Nope - see above.

> The difference in type as opposed to position of
> accent is probably Byzantine scholars' guesswork.
Nope - all forms are derived quite normally from the 'default' recessive
accent, or from regularly derived forms.

> Ray, do you know theorder of the sound changes?
see above   :)

--
Ray
==================================
ray@carolandray.plus.com
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
==================================
Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB}

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