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Re: Messy orthography (Re: Sound change rules for erosion)

From:Benct Philip Jonsson <bpj@...>
Date:Friday, November 21, 2003, 18:17
At 04:20 21.11.2003, Nik Taylor wrote:

>You could always have a "sane" romanization and an "insane" native >orthography. :-) My Ivetsian will be something like that.
So will/does my Sohlob. Mind you I don't know what the native graphemes look like, but I do know that some of them are distinguished by diacritics and/or digraphs that are unsyste- matic but somewhat based on the historical phonology/orthography of the lang. Thus e.g. /s/ is distinguished from /h/ by a diacritic -- or by doubling the {h} grapheme --, since *s in most contexts became /h/. Most cases of "modern" /s/ are derived from *t_j, but are written in the same way as the occasional preserved *s. With /p t k/ it gets real messy, since they are written as {bb dd gg} or as {bh dh gh} without any rule, in spite of the fact that there is a syncronic rule which turns /b d g/ + /h/ into /p t k/, whereas the doubling convention is entirely arbitrary. (There is also the possibility of using a diacritic on {b d g}, but that was invented by and is almost exclusively used by, grammarians and philologists who feel the need for a more accurate orthography.) The Romanization OTOH has unique symbols for most phonemes, the main exception being {ny} for /J/ and {ng} for /N/, which reflect the usage of the native orthography. The only case of a diacritic in the romanization is {ç} (c-cedilla) for /s\/ vs. {c} for /ts\/, but these two graphemes are not similarly related in the native script. There is also an ASCIIfication of the romanization which uses {tj sj dj zj} instead of {c ç j} (where {zj} indicates the allophonic replacement of /dz\/ by /z\/ before /d/, since I think {djd} looks ugly.) BTW the extrafictional explanation for the {ny} digraph for /J/ is that I got confused by {nj} in the ASCIIfication -- cf. {nj} for /ndz\/ in the romanization! Also I got confused by {ñ} (n-tilde) in the romanization, since I had gotten used to {ñ} for [N] in another conlang. /BP 8^) -- B.Philip Jonsson mailto:melrochX@melroch.se (delete X) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__ A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \ __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / / \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / / / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / / / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /'Aestan ~\_ // /__/ // /__/ / /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\ Gwaedhvenn Angeliniel\ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~ || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! || "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)