Re: Fruitcakes

>From: Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...>
>Reply-To: Constructed Languages List <CONLANG@...>
>To: CONLANG@LISTSERV.BROWN.EDU
>Subject: Re: [OT] Re: Fruitcakes
>Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 12:00:27 +0200
>
>En réponse à Tristan <zsau@...>:
>
> >
> > Can I call you a fruitcake? Can I call black people n--whatever-it-is?
> > I'm neither gay nor black nor female nor abnormally short. Why does
> > that
> > mean that when I call you 'fruitcake', it's discriminatory?
> >
>
>Well, nowhere in his post did this person imply that, as far as I've read.
As long as you treat us with the same equality you ask for, you deserve the
same. I don't think anyone ever said otherwise.
>
> > What you've implied is that gay people mean 'fruitcake' as a joke or
> > something, but us 'breeders' can only mean it derogatorily ('Gay guys
> > can call me a fruitcake... The difference is who means it'). That
> > sounds
> > like discrimination to me.
> >
>
>But it was not what Jake meant.
It wasn't what I meant.
>He just meant that when used by other gay
>people, those normally derogative words (since you can't deny that they are
>mostly used derogatorily by straight men) lost their derogative meaning by
>the
>simple fact of being uttered by other gay men. That doesn't mean straight
>men
>can't use them with gay friends in a friendly manner. It just means that
>from a
>straight man, especially an unknown one, the chance is strong that the word
>will be used derogatorily (since it's mostly used so), while the chance is
>inexistent with another gay man.
Other than those few who still doubt their own equality (i.e. believe they
are "sinners" or some such, but I imagine that number is pretty small now in
the urban world.
>
>It's not us gay men who provoke this situation, but the hordes of straight
>people who use those words derogatorily in a daily basis.
THANK YOU!!
(snip of more of the same: I so agree with you!)
>But you cannot blame us for discrimination here. The discrimination comes
>from the other side. If it was not there, we wouldn't care what word you
>use to
>name us.
Discrimination, as expressed through names and words like that, is only an
expression of the hateful feeling if the person DOES hate x minority (or
majority). If they don't, and actually share that identity, usually they are
joking.
>
> > (Sorry, I'm just annoyed at the fact that straight, white,
> > regular-height males can be discriminated against and if they complain
> > they're called absurd.
>
>It's not absurd, and I agree with you when it's about single persons.
>However,
>the majority of straight people still use those terms derogatorily, while
>gay
>men don't, so it's just fair that we're a bit suspicious when a straight
>man
>uses them, while we won't be when a gay man uses them.
>
>  Now waiting for posts to call me absurd. But
> > it's
> > no more absurd than what some minority groups get other people into
> > trouble for. Maybe I have to become gay or something to get
> > equality...)
> >
>
(snip)

Jake

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