OSV; was: Italian Particles

John Cowan wrote:
>
> Sally Caves scripsit:
>
> > So... what you're saying is that analytic languages, like English, are
> > PERFORCE subject first?  Or verb subject?  Hmmm.  I don't see why that
> > can't be formally broken.
>
> I think there is a pressure toward SVO in languages that don't mark case,
> simply so that ellipsis works: you can have VO or SV, and there's no doubt
> what's meant.  In verb-first or verb-last languages, it's not clear whether
> a single argument is S or O.
True, probably.  Sigh.  Tim hit on an especially difficult aspect of T.,
and
it behooves me to work it out--this business of topic and focus.  In
Welsh,
a verb initial language, you put the focus at the beginning: Meddyg yw
ef,
"DOCTOR is he," rather than y mae ef yn meddyg, "is he (in) doctor."
But
other thing happen, like the dropping of the predicate particle yn when
focussed item is fronted.  I was hoping that in Teonaht some such
signaling
features could be employed to express focus rather than just a reversal
of
word order.  But T. is switching, slowly, to an SOV structure in its
vernacular.  And it does mark case... in its articles, and in the
Nenddeyly
words that have several different endings for the accusative/dative.

In an OSV or an SOV language, where do the "wh" or question words go?
I recall a long conversation about this some years ago, but I'm still
undecided.

        A doctor he. (Teonaht)
        Who a doctor?  (Teonaht?)  or:  A doctor who?

There is also that question particle.  In T. one has the option of
putting the particle either before the verb, or, in the case of the
"wh" words, infixing them there:

Normal question:

        Il hdond      elsy hdar ke?
        The doctor past-you Q. see?
        "Did you see the doctor?"

        kwa imral  "what person" --interrogative relative
        kwa hdar imral, or kwa'r imral -- who?

So:     Hdond lo.   "A doctor he (is)."
        Kwa'r imral hdond?  "Who a doctor (is)?"  instead of
                kwa imral hdar hdond?

But:    Il   hdond  kwa' r  imral    elon   ke?
        "The doctor what Q. person past-one see?
        "Who saw the doctor"?  (doctor emphasized)

        Kwa'r imral il dhond           elon   ke?
        who         the doctor (ACC) did one see?
        "WHO saw the doctor"?

        Kerem rin il hdond  kwa'r imral elon de?
        Seeing of the doctor    who     did-one do?
        "Who SAW the doctor?"

I know for consistency's sake I should keep the question particle in
front
of the verb, but I like this option of putting it with the
interrogatives.
A lot of it depends on what sounds euphonious to me.
============================================================
SALLY CAVES
scaves@frontiernet.net
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves (bragpage)
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/teonaht.html (T. homepage)
http://www.frontiernet.net/~scaves/contents.html (all else)
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Niffodyr tweluenrem lis teuim an.
"The gods have retractible claws."
                                from _The Gospel of Bastet_
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