Re: Ergativity

On 21 Jan 00, at 7:36, FFlores wrote:

> Our own NOMAIL-set Carlos Thompson sent me a message a
> couple of days ago -- he wanted to send a nice greeting
> to the list (since he apparently isn't getting MAIL for
> some time).
Nice to hear from him!  Please convey good wishes to him...

> He also forwarded me a question appeared in alt.usage.spanish
> where someone asked about ergativity in general, and about
> ergativity in Spanish (!?). I told him to tell the guy that
> there was no such thing. But anyway, if you have any resources
> on ergativity, or want to contribute a nice definition, or
> have any idea why he could've thought of ergativity in Spanish,
> please tell me.
Yes, anyone out there who has a definitive definition, please post it.

I know there's one in the (a ?) conlang FAQ, but I don't seem to recall
exactly where, hold on...

Gah!  I appear to have left all my good bookmarks in England!

I tried looking at the sci.lang FAQ at zompist, but NFG, as per.

Anyone know the URL to the "other" conlang FAQ (not the one at conlang.org,
the previous one)?  ISTR it belongs to a former, rather than current,
listmember?  There were a real treasure trove of good linguistics answers,
alas too much info to simply sit down with and plough thru in one go, and
I've totally forgotten where it was.

FWIW, here's a summary of Trask (1993), though you probably are familiar
with all the facts presented here:

ergative n. or adj.

1.
The distinctive case form marking the subject of a transitive verb in
morphologically ergative languages and contrasting there with the
absolutive, used for intransitive subjects and direct objects.

2. (more fully, ergative-absolutive)
Denoting a grammatical pattern in which subjects of intransitive verbs and
direct objects of transitive verbs are treaded identically for grammatical
purposes, while subjects of transitive verbs are treated differently.
Ergativity can be manifested morphologically (most typically, in the case
marking of argument NPs and in verbal argeement) or syntactically (e.g., in
the control of pronominalisation on in the coordination of VPs).

NOTE: this is now the established sense of the term 'ergative'; the
following quite different senses are idiosyncratic at best, and should be
avoided.

3.
A label sometimes given to a canonical transitive clause whose subject is
an agent, such as "John read the book", as opposed to the non-ergative
"John knew the truth", or to the subject NP in such a clause.

4.
A name sometimes given to the transitive pattern exemplified by the
sentance "She opened the door" as compared to the intransitive sentance
"the door opened", reflexing the observation that the patient NP "the door"
functions indifferently in either case.

5.
In GB, a label sometimes applied to unaccusative verbs which function both
transitively and intransitively, such as "melt" in "the ice melted" and
"John melted the ice"

NOTE: the term 'ergative' has sometimes been misunderstood and applied in
ways that are simply erroneous, particularly before 1970.  A detailed
account of the history of the term 'ergative'  is given in Seely (1977) 'An
ergative historiography', Historiographica Linguistica 4: 191-206.

ergative language n.
A language in which ergative (sense 2) morphology or syntax is prominent or
predominant.