OT: Rzeczpospolita (was: Re: Hi from Ukraine)

> Date:    Sat, 1 Dec 2001 12:34:03 -0500
> From:    Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>
> Subject: Re: Hi from Ukraine
>
> John Cowan wrote:
> >
> >Andreas Johansson scripsit:
> >
> > > BTW, in Swedish literature the Polono-Lithuanian union is often
refered
> >to
> > > as simply "Rzeczpospolita". Is this in use in English too?
> >
> >Are you kidding?  Insert a monstrosity like that into the flow of limpid
> >English
> >prose?  I think NOT!  :-)
> >
> >Most English-speakers probably aren't aware that the Republic of the Two
> >Crowns
> >(which is what it's called in Ill Bethisad) ever existed.  If they are,
> >they
> >probably think of it as "Poland".
>
> I suspect that 99% of Swedish people have never seen the word. Very few
know
> that said state existed (despite the fact that we were in personal union
> with it for a few years during the late 1500s). None of which bothers the
> average professsional historian in need of an unambiguous term ("Poland"
> could be taken to mean exlude Lithuania and the Ukraine, of course).
This remainds me the surprise I caused to my cousin who live in Sweden when
I told her that there was a war (1660) when Sweden attacked Poland.

--
Lukasz K.

****************************************

> Date:    Sat, 1 Dec 2001 17:48:14 +0000
> From:    Dan Jones <dan@...>
> Subject: Re: Hi from Ukraine
>
> John Cowan escreva:
> >Andreas Johansson scripsit:
> >
> > > BTW, in Swedish literature the Polono-Lithuanian union is often
refered to
> > > as simply "Rzeczpospolita". Is this in use in English too?
>
> It'll do for Arvorec, though- Respolyta.
Well, AFAIK this 'rz', originally palatalized 'r', probably became fricative
(sth like Czech 'r^') about 13th century and evolved probably through
[rS]/[rZ] to achieve the modern pronounciation of [S]/[Z] even in the
literary language at the beginning of 18th century. When do you expect
Arvorec to aquire this term and from what sources?

--
Lukasz K.


****************************************

> Date:    Sat, 1 Dec 2001 14:01:49 -0500
> From:    Paul Sherrill <sherril2@...>
> Subject: Re: Hi from Ukraine
>
> On Sat, 1 Dec 2001 13:39:06 -0500, Andreas Johansson <and_yo@...>
> wrote:
>
> >Nicole wrote:
> >>--- Andreas Johansson froge sionk:
> >> > BTW, in Swedish literature the Polono-Lithuanian union is often
> >> > refered to
> >> > as simply "Rzeczpospolita". Is this in use in English too?
> >> >
> >>  doesn't 'rzecz' mean 'thing/item' in polish...?
> >
> >Not the slightest, but as "Rzeczpospolita" is ultimately from Latin "res
> >publica" I doubt it's related.
>
> But isn't Latin "res" used in much the same way as
> English's "thing"?  "Thing" is how my textbook says to translate "res", so
> it seems to me there could be a connection.  Perhaps either "res" was
> borrowed into Polish and then used in a calque of "res publica", or the
two
> words were borrowed at the same time?
No, no. <rzecz> is etymologically the same word as Russian <rech>, Ukrainian
<rich>, Slovak <rec^>, Serbian/Croatian <r(ij)ec^>, Bulgarian <rech> etc.
However in these languages it means usually rather "speech" or "word" or
sth. related for it's a derivation from a verb meaning "to say" (in Proto
Slavonic: *rekti with many different continuants of this "kt"). But don't
ask me why have its meaning evolved in Polish this way.

--
Lukasz K.



--

Tego nie znajdziesz w zadnym sklepie!
[ http://oferty.onet.pl ]