Re: Goblin? errrr... Greek, Latin and Hebrew phonology

Classical Latin [w] (represented by 'v' which also represented [u])
changed to [v] in Medieval Latin.

Similarly, presumably, very old Hebrew [w] (represented by 'vav'
which also represented [u] occasionally) changed to [v] -- but you
have suggested that it must have done so earlier than I thought.

Classical and Konie Greek [b], represented by 'beta', changed to
Byzantine and Modern Greek [v].

Hebrew 'beth' can represent [v] as well as [b], but as I understand
it this is a mutation, not a normal sound change, right?  But the
result of it is that Hebrew has two symbols for [v]; hence the
spelling confusions you mentioned.

All of these changes were going on sometime before about 500 AD but
how much before, and their sequence relative to each other, I'm not
sure.  Probably they happened at different rates in different areas.

By the way, I heard a funny story about the modern Greek spellings.
A friend of mine heard it in Greece, from another friend, so it may
well be odd linguistic folklore rather than fact.  Apparently a Greek
nightclub wanted to call itself the "Rendezvous" (pronounced, in this
case, [randivu] -- not quite correct French but close enough).  But it
was to be spelled in Greek.  So they started with Rho (P) for [r],
Alpha (A) for [a]; the representation of [d] in modern Greek is nu-tau
(NT), so it's convenient enough that the [d] in this case was preceded
by an [n].  For the [i] they used Upsilon (Y), an arbitrary choice
since by my estimate about 80% of modern Greek vowel and diphthong
graphs are pronounced [i].  The graph for [v] in modern Greek is beta
(B) (see above discussion), and the graph for [u] in Greek is
Omicron-Upsilon (OY) (see my previous message).

So when you put it all together, you get a club name that is very
arresting to Anglophone eyes:


                     P A N T Y B O Y



Ed Heil
.. edheil@postmark.net
.... http://edheil.iwarp.com

Steg Belsky wrote:

> On Fri, 13 Aug 1999 22:41:32 +1200 andrew <hobbit@...>
> writes:
> >On Thu, 12 Aug 1999, Steg Belsky wrote:
> >> Well, i'm sort of incredulous at the idea of Hebrew _vav_ being [w],
> >at
> >> least as far back as the first few CE centuries...  In the Aramaic
> >of the
>
> >Wouldn't this coincide with similar soundchanges affecting Vulgar
> >Latin,
> >and possibly coinciding with what happened to Greek beta?
> >- andrew.
> >--
> >Andrew Smith, Intheologus
>
>
> I don't know anything about Vulgar Latin or Greek soundchanges, except
> that Latin {v} [w] somehow became [v] in Spanish and French (at least).
> What happened to the Greek beta?
>
>
> -Stephen (Steg)
>
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