Re: USAGE: (Mis)Naming a Language

On Thu, 28 Oct 2004 09:34:35 -0600, Muke Tever <hotblack@F...> wrote:

>and a Rhaeto-Romance language more commonly in English alled "Ladin".

In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Carsten Becker <naranoieati@B...> wrote:

>>Heh, you Americans would pronounce "Ladin" and "Latin" the same when
>>speaking uncarefully ["l&:4In], wouldn't you?

Not me!  I'm a bit of a neophyte with x-sampa, but let's see what I
can come up with.

ladin is /l{d}n=/

latin is /l{t}n=/

I'm trying to show that the d and t are begun with the tongue against
the alveolus, but there is no oral release of air.  Instead the
center of the tongue seems to rise to the palate to form the n and
the air is released through the nose.  /I/ is never heard.

The minimal pairs maddens/matins, sadden/satin are produced in the
same way, mutatis mutandis.

I believe that Carsten is basing his supposition on the American
practice of voicing intervocal voiceless consonants, e.g., latter
=ladder.  But in this case there is no intervocal voicing since there
are not two vowels involved.  There is the /{/, but there is no /I/.

Charlie

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