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R: Re: R: Re: Old Norse (was Re: New to the list)

From:Mangiat <mangiat@...>
Date:Friday, June 23, 2000, 16:36
----- Original Message -----
From: Vima Kadphises
Sent: Thursday, June 22, 2000 8:57 PM
Subject: Re: R: Re: Old Norse (was Re: New to the list)

Egregio signore:
Mangiat <mangiat@...> wrote:
"Well, in Italian you have even more (litterary Italian): just three days
I received a brochure where it was written: 'La S.V. è invitata allo
spettacolo', where S.V. stands for Signoria Vostra , something like Your
Majesty. No sarcastic style. AFAIR, during the centuries we've had:
LEI (litterary = she) used with strangers, teachers and work bosses. The
gender is female, but it's used even with men (my dialect has somehow
reatined 'lüü' for men and 'lée' for women)."
Luca, where did this form come from? IIRC, Bruno Migliorini's book "Storia della lingua italiana" claims that the use of LEI was calqued on Spanish "usted," but I don't buy it. It seems awfully like German to me (or perhaps the German is calqued on the Italian? I dunno).
I don't know where's it from. My mother teaches Italian and literary subjects (history, latin) in a Junior High School, so my house is full of grammars, but they don't give such explanations. Anyway I can't believe it from Spanish 'usted' for two reasons: AFAIR, usted means something like 'you', 2nd plural person, while 'lei' is 'she', 3rd singular female; then there is the historical reason: I think 'lei' was common even before the Spanish dominations (even if I'm not sure). << Which dialect do you speak? Not dialatt bulgnais, perchance?
No, fortunately. I can't bear dialects southern than Milanées (not that I am a 'leghista', obviously. No man whit a little of culture can seriously be one of them. I simply don't like them - neither I can understand a word...) I speak the dialect of Como, on the Swiss border. It's something very difficult, and surely un-Italian for all those used to identify my lovely language with that mafious jargon they hear on TV. A sentence in my dialect? Well, let's try a proverb, one of my favs: 'dòma giùvina e omm vecc fan fijöö fin al tecc' /'dOna 'dZujna @ 'Om 'vEtS fa~ fi.'Y: fi~ al 'tEtS/, 'a young woman and an old man will have sons up to the roof' : ) << A formal "voi" has an almost fascistic sound to my ears.
No, why? Nowadays it sounds simply sarcastic! << -Carlo
Carlo ??? Hey, where are you from? Luca