Re: Telek Verbs

Marcus Smith wrote:

> Class-A prefixes mark the subject of a transitive verb and an active verb.
> Intuitively, an active verb is one which denotes an activity rather than a
> state.   _tele_ "speak" is an activity, so takes a class-A prefix: _natele_ "I
> am speaking".  The notion of "active verb" may also mean that the action is
> voluntarily done: "snore" is probably an activity, but does not take an
> A-prefix because it is not a voluntarily, neither is "fall".
[ snip rest of *very* interesting active stuff ]

Yihaa! Another active conlang! :) Anyway. On to your "problem". In Acehnese
one actually marks "sneeze", "cough" and "vomit" and similar verbs with A,
since it is seen as the element of volition is a negative or potential one:
the activities concerned can be inhibited, delayed or permitted, if not
completely controlled. The non-volitional derivatives, such as "cough
uncontrollably" imply a pathological lack of any control, however limited.

But all the other active langs I've seen rather seem to make a distinction
between control/non-control or volition/non-volition. As does Telek.

In Guaraní and Lakhota "hiccough" verbs also take A-function since
these langs only care about whether it's an activity verb or not.
They don't care about the control of the action.

In the case of "fall" verbs, Lakhota does not mark it with A-function,
but Guaraní does. This is because Guaraní only makes a distinction
between event and non-event and does not take notice about performance,
effect or instigation. However, Lakhota does, so since "fall" verbs
aren't P/E/I these verbs are marked as Patient.

Hmm... You seem to already know of all this anyway so I don't
know why I'm writing all this... Perhaps it interests someone
else on the list.

So, to sum it up. Telek seems to be fluid-S. The main distinction
is if the event is controlled or non-controlled ("cough" "die").
In every other case Telek marks the argument as a Patient. Even
if the verb is controlled but not an event? So how do you handle
predicates like "reside", "be prudent" and "be patient"? These
aren't events, but they are controlled. This seems to be the
main issue to see if it is control or 'eventiveness' that takes
precedence.

> I love irregularities and complicated systems (if you couldn't tell by now),
Have you looked at the "activity" of Central Pomo? Okey, it's not
irregular, but very complicated. It even has to do with empathy
and affectedness, which differs between 3p and 1+2p and whether
the speaker feels empathy for the little boy who just fell. :)
Very cool system.

> but to keep this message small, I'll only mention one involving transitive
> verbs.  _fammi_ "want" is transitive, but takes a class-O prefix for its
> subject and none for its object.  That means that only inanimates may be the
> object of "want": _lufammi_ "I want it/them".  There is no way to use a 1st,
> 2nd or animate object with the verb -- these ideas must be paraphrased.
Interesting! Any chance the "activity" affects the syntax of Telek?
For example, in Acehnese the verb "want" requires A - A coreference
between the clauses. How do you handle these things? (Don't tell
me it will come with your posting on syntax! ;)

[ snip rest of very interesting mail ]

Can't wait to see more on Telek! :)

/ Daniel