Re: 'mouth noises' bad? [was: Re: YAPT]

--- "J. 'Mach' Wust" <j_mach_wust@...> wrote:

> On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 11:26:51 -0800, Gary Shannon
> <fiziwig@...> wrote:
>
> >It doesn't matter if you say "lets play a game" or
> >"lits ply a gyme." I still understand you.
>
> And what if somebody says _yet's pyay a game_ or
> _less flay a kame_? Or what
> if somebody ceases from distinguishing /s, z/ from
> /T, D/ (most languages
> don't distinguish them). Consonants are sounds as
> well!
>
Americans say "budder" but still understand when a
Brit says "butter" with actual 'T' sounds.

>
> >My other reason for believing that specifics of
> mouth
> >noises are of little importance is the fact that
> the
> >mouth noises of any language are the part of the
> >language subject to the quickest changes over time.
>
> That's not true. The quickest changes happen in
> vocabulary, that is, in the
> meaning of words. In Italian or in Spanish, for
> instance, the pronunciation
> has changed very little for hundreds of years (in
> Spanish except for a few
> consonants), whereas the vocabulary has made huge
> changes.
>
Counter example: English in the deep south of the USA
came from the same source as English in Australia, and
separated at most 400 or 500 years ago, yet are
radically different in pronunciation while remaining
virtually identical in vocabulary.

> The velocity of sound change seems to vary from
> language to language:
> Italian is still pronounced more or less the same as
> in the Middle Ages,
> whereas English has changed dramatically.
>
As I noted in an earlier post, languages like Italian
which are confined to a relatively small geographic
area might have more stable pronunciation.  Introduce
geographic isolation between two populations, however,
and they appear to diverge rapidly, as witness Sydney
vs Alabama. (What about Amish country vs Germany? How
much do they differ with respect to details of mouth
noises?)

I would be very curious to see what evidence there is
for the stability of the pronunciation of Italian and
Spanish over time, since no sound recordings exist
from the 12th century.  I don't doubt that what you
say is true, I'd just like to know how that conclusion
was reached.

--gary

> gry@s:
> j. 'mach' wust
>

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