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Re: Have Had, Had Have (Was Re: Posting limits)

From:Tristan Mc Leay <kesuari@...>
Date:Tuesday, July 13, 2004, 10:53
David Peterson wrote:
> Tristan wrote: > > <<(If Philip had've > said 'Rhode Island', I would've had no trouble, so it'd be more like > some oißlender not knowing where NT---the Northern Territory---was. But > even then, that wouldn't worry me.>> > > I'm not sure if you realized you wrote this, or if it was an accident, > but you just gave me some evidence of something I say exists,
I certainly didn't start writing by saying 'I want to use two modal haves'. I never realised it was an issue, I just said something that meant what I wanted to say.
>but > no one in the department believes exist: Using *two* modal "have"'s. > I do it often when I say something like, "I would've had to've had eaten".
That's getting a shade bizarre. Seems like someone's trying to be extra complicated :) W/out the second 'had' and I could pass it, though.
> And above you wrote: "If Philip had've said..."
Well, I don't think I used two model 'haves' there. I think the first time, i used a modal have, and the second time is used -'ve. I'm sure the fact that -'ve is often spelt as 'of' suggests *something*. In 'would've had', I don't think it's a modal so I'm assuming it's not an issue here :)
>The intention is (I > believe): > (1) To reference a time in the past; (2) with respect to that time in > the past, > to reference a time *further*in the past; and (3) within *that* time frame, > reference a completed action, with respect to the second time frame. Is > that right?
Well, to me, it was clearly past hypothetical (or whatever the proper name for that is... subjunctive?). I think 'if' crops up all the time with 'had've'. Certainly seems more natural than the alternative without the -'ve. So: (1) to reference a time in the past; (2) with respect to that time in the past, to reference an event that could've but didn't happen. BTW: try googling for had've (5020), "had of", "had have" etc. (w/quotes). You might find something useful---but not all the time!) -- Tristan. | To be nobody-but-yourself in a world kesuari at yahoo! | which is doing its best to, night and day, | to make you everybody else--- | means to fight the hardest battle | which any human being can fight; | and never stop fighting. | --- E. E. Cummings, "A Miscellany"