Re: Translating from a conlang into a conlang

On Tue, 20 Apr 1999, FFlores wrote:

> Boudewijn Rempt <bsarempt@...> wrote:
>=20
>=20
> Here's an attempt, in Drasel=E9q:
>=20
> Tum! I p=FCltamth bramek                        Poom! Plums they fall
> I dremh=FCntel aouth ladhet             Thirteen wells I have
> g=EDmnilaqai b=FCtth san =FCth=E1n!             who will ask for my heart=
!
> P=E0ql=F3n ven san nedhuar                      Thick and black is my hai=
r
> Sar qgast, bur Nollalvet                Me, I'm beautiful, says Eldersist=
er
> Sarn i ieden qg=E9dnerai k=FCr=E1th             Someone give now some sil=
k to me
> per rrap okles s=ECn qgast.             for I'm beautiful like a cherry f=
lower.
>=20
Nobly done! Beautiful!=20

>=20
> I   dremh=FCntel aouth ladhet
> PRT thirteen   wells have.1s
>=20
The spring I meant was was springtime, as opposed to autumn.
In the other couplets summers, autumns and winters are counted,
to end in the final couplet with the death of the girl.

>=20
> Sar qgast,       bur    Nollalvet
> 1s  beautiful.1s say.3s Old-FEM-sibling
>=20
How is _qg_ pronounced? A click, or is it a double articulation,
like kp?

> Sarn   i   ieden qg=E9dnerai       k=FCr=E1th
> 1s.ACC PRT silk  give.SUBJ.3sACT someone        ("give silk" =3D "court")
>=20
What a beatiful idiom...

>
> How's that?
>
Excellent! Full marks...

> I took your _yashnar_ to mean springs =3D "wells", but that
> doesn't seem to make sense. Is there an explanation
> for that sentence?
>=20
See above. Your age is something you 'have' in most
Charyan languages. I have 29 years, _Do et werubrai apar=20
ajumum_ in Denden. An exception is Southern colloquial,
where a genitive construction is normal: _tan do werubarai
abar ajun ga_.

>=20
> I have no way to render a high grade honorific pronoun or
> an affective aspect, so most of the feeling is lost in
> the translation, I guess. I have a deference marker for
> verbs which I could use for the flattering mood (it
> would transform _bur_ "says (Eldersister)" into _b=FArsasuv_.
> I also have an informal speech marker, maybe for your
> affective aspect (_qg=E9dnervitai_ "may [someone] give").
>=20
It is not necessarily so that the feeling of the song is lost. In
Den'naha, the HGH pronouns are the 'unmarked' ones, for general usage
outside the household. The MGH pronouns can be used in the household,
but only between people of the same generation. The VHGH (very High
Grade Honorific) pronouns are used in circumstances where real deference
is needed. There also exist affective pronouns, but, interestingly, they
are not used in this song. Affective pronouns are usually only used
between lovers.  The verb avaneran demands the affective aspectivizer;
to use it otherwise has the lexical meaning of seduce.

> That's all I can do!
Do huwanju seri.

Boudewijn Rempt  | www.xs4all.nl/~bsarempt