Re: How you pronunce foreign place names

>Eugene Oh <un.doing@...> wrote:
>In writing the reply to Leon's questions about Pinyin, I used the
>word "Beijing", which made me curious as to how people habitually
>pronounce the names of foreign places when speaking in a certain
>language.
>E.g. "Beijing" in English -- upon encountering this word, do you
>1. Attempt to pronounce it as close to the native as possible
>2. Use English rules of pronunciation to read it [beIdZIN]
>3. Pronounce it Englishly, butwith some exoticisation [beIZIN]
>4. Pronounce it otherwise?
>Using Beijing as an example, I find that for me, rule 1 kicks in
>when speaking to other people who know Chinese; rule 2 when reading
>a passage, or when speaking in a decidedly English-only environment
>(such as with people of a multitude of races in the conversation);
>and rule 3 never.
I'm of the school that maintains that speakers of foreign languages
do not have the right to tell speakers of English how to pronounce
words in English, or indeed, even insist that we change our name for
a place simply because they've decided to change the name of the
place (new political entities excepted, e.g., Zaire).  Yes, I know,
it's curmudgeonly.

Of the above 4 choices I go with #4.  I say /pi"kIN/.  Get back to
me when the Italians start saying "Beijingo."

>Ditto for "Paris", "Seoul", "Kagoshima", "Iraq", "Madrid", "Havana",
>"São Paulo" etc.
Paris?  If one can't say /p{"Ri/ then stick to /"p{r\is/.  And if
one is going to go with /p{"Ri/ then logic dictates /fRa~s/, n'est-
ce pas? (I'm not sure how to indicate a nasal vowel in X-sampa.)

Madrid? Do any Anglophones really say /ma"D4iD/?  /m@"dr\Id/ is fine
for me.  The folks from the town of the same name in Missouri say /"m
{dr\Id/.

/ha"Bana/??  The name of the city in Cuba is /la a'Bana/.  For me
it's /h@"v{n@/.  Of course, those who say /ha"Bana/ must perforce
say /"kuBa/, not /"k_jub@/

And I challenge any American to say /sa~ "paulu/, unless, of course,
he or she also speaks Portuguese.

Pet peeve?  /t{nz{n"i@/.  Perhaps I AM uppity.  I don't know of any
other word in English that accents the "i" in the "-ia" ending of
words.  /r\um@n"i@/? /bVlg{r\"i@/?  I don't think so.

I admit to a bit of inconsistency here.  While I have changed from
Siam to Thailand, it's still Burma to me, not Myanmar, and Ceylon,
not Sri Lanka.  I'd like to hear the average Anglophone get THAT "s"
right.

Please be forgiving of my use of X-sampa.  I doubt that I've got it
down quite right yet.

But enough ranting.  I should be celebrating the Sunday Masses
today, but the weather here in the Blue Ridge Mountains has forced
me to stay home.

All of you enjoy your Sunday wherever you may be, whatever the
weather conditions are.

Charlie
http://wiki.frath.net/senjecas

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