Re: I need an artist ::: and articles
|From:||Raymond A. Brown <raybrown@...>|
|Date:||Thursday, January 21, 1999, 20:59|
At 11:02 pm +0000 20/1/99, Rhialto wrote:
>[disclaimer: I dont really know ascii IPA, this is an attempt to duplicate
>the symbols in the OED as closely as possible. It'll probably just confuse
>you as much as all my other ramblings.]
>>short: [&] [E] [I] [O] [U]
>> hat bed hit hot put
>>long: [A:] [E:] [@:] [i:] [O:] [u:]
>> harp hair her heat saw too
>>diph. [aI] [eI] [OI]
>> my day boy
>>diph. [aU] [oU]
>> how hope
>A E I O U = short vowels
>AR EE ER II OR UU = long vowels
>AI EI OI = dipthongs
>AU OO = rounded dipthongs
>So your only change is to move ER from row 4 to row 2? That makes sense.
>Row 4 rounds the lips, the others are unrounded. Rows 2,3,4 are all double
>>There seems to be a gap, so to speak, in the short vowel row. I'd expect
>>[@] (a in about) or [V] (u in but) to be there.
>Those two are represented by A in Demua. As I originally noted, A and U
>cover several sounds, the ones listed are merely the most typical.
>/V/ as in run is A
>/@/ as in ago is A
>>I've given phonetic notation. I suspect that the first two rows are
>>possibly intended to be phonemically:
>>short: /a/ /E/ /i/ /O/ /u/
>> long: /a:/ /E:/ /@:/ /i:/ /O:/ /u:/
>>The diphthongs seem a bit sparse.
>Not unintentionally so. I simply did not want to have a complete grid in the
So Demua has other diphthongs?
>>I'm wondering if we should not only accept the [E@] analysis of 'hair' but
>>also analyze 'part' as [pA@t] and 'saw' as [sO@].
>Definitely not. They should all be one vowel lengthened.
OK - only a suggestion. But the second row is not the first row + length.
There are other changes, e.g. English 'i' in 'pin' is [I] which is
noticeably lower and laxer than the 'ee' in 'seen' [si:n]. It is question
which is the dominating factor in your language. If length, then the
hightening & tensing is seen as concomitant features of lengthening. It
all depends how one looks at things, e.g. I've come across different
phonemic interpretations of English [I] ~ [i:], such as:
/i/ ~ /i:/ (length difference)
/i/ ~ /ij/ (simple vowel ~ diphthong)
/I/ ~ /i/ (difference of height & tenseness)
>Same for EE, AR, ER and OR. /e:/ /a:/ /@:/ /o:/. While a Demuan would
>understand the schwa-ed versions, it would definitely the speaker as a
>foreigner. These are long vowels, not dipthongs.
>UU or 'too' should be /u:/. Not a dipthong, but understandable when spoken
Difference of interpretation :)
But stick with the one you prefer. At least I seem to have have been of
some help, which is what this list is about, and you've turned down an
alternative interpretation, which is quite OK. Suggestions are just that -
Good luck with Demua.
>PS: please dont reply to both me and the list. It only confuses me :)
Sorry - it's the pesky mailer. I'll be more careful this time.