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Re: I need an artist ::: and articles

From:Raymond A. Brown <raybrown@...>
Date:Thursday, January 21, 1999, 20:59
At 11:02 pm +0000 20/1/99, Rhialto wrote:
> >[disclaimer: I dont really know ascii IPA, this is an attempt to duplicate >the symbols in the OED as closely as possible. It'll probably just confuse >you as much as all my other ramblings.]
Look at: [snip]
>>short: [&] [E] [I] [O] [U] >> hat bed hit hot put >>long: [A:] [E:] [@:] [i:] [O:] [u:] >> harp hair her heat saw too >>diph. [aI] [eI] [OI] >> my day boy >>diph. [aU] [oU] >> how hope > > >A E I O U = short vowels >AR EE ER II OR UU = long vowels >AI EI OI = dipthongs >AU OO = rounded dipthongs > >So your only change is to move ER from row 4 to row 2? That makes sense. > >Row 4 rounds the lips, the others are unrounded. Rows 2,3,4 are all double >length vowels.
>>There seems to be a gap, so to speak, in the short vowel row. I'd expect >>[@] (a in about) or [V] (u in but) to be there. > > >Those two are represented by A in Demua. As I originally noted, A and U >cover several sounds, the ones listed are merely the most typical. > >/V/ as in run is A >/@/ as in ago is A
>>I've given phonetic notation. I suspect that the first two rows are >>possibly intended to be phonemically: >> >>short: /a/ /E/ /i/ /O/ /u/ >> long: /a:/ /E:/ /@:/ /i:/ /O:/ /u:/ >> >>The diphthongs seem a bit sparse. > > >Not unintentionally so. I simply did not want to have a complete grid in the >vowel table.
So Demua has other diphthongs?
>>I'm wondering if we should not only accept the [E@] analysis of 'hair' but >>also analyze 'part' as [pA@t] and 'saw' as [sO@]. > >Definitely not. They should all be one vowel lengthened.
OK - only a suggestion. But the second row is not the first row + length. There are other changes, e.g. English 'i' in 'pin' is [I] which is noticeably lower and laxer than the 'ee' in 'seen' [si:n]. It is question which is the dominating factor in your language. If length, then the hightening & tensing is seen as concomitant features of lengthening. It all depends how one looks at things, e.g. I've come across different phonemic interpretations of English [I] ~ [i:], such as: /i/ ~ /i:/ (length difference) /i/ ~ /ij/ (simple vowel ~ diphthong) /I/ ~ /i/ (difference of height & tenseness)
> >Same for EE, AR, ER and OR. /e:/ /a:/ /@:/ /o:/. While a Demuan would >understand the schwa-ed versions, it would definitely the speaker as a >foreigner. These are long vowels, not dipthongs. > > >UU or 'too' should be /u:/. Not a dipthong, but understandable when spoken >as one.
Difference of interpretation :) But stick with the one you prefer. At least I seem to have have been of some help, which is what this list is about, and you've turned down an alternative interpretation, which is quite OK. Suggestions are just that - suggestions. Good luck with Demua.
>--- >Rhialto >PS: please dont reply to both me and the list. It only confuses me :)
Sorry - it's the pesky mailer. I'll be more careful this time. Ray.