Re: OT: The semantics of "Guns don't kill people" (was Re: OT: Helen Keller & Whorf-Sapir)

On Sat, 14 Aug 2004 22:02:39 +0200, Jörg Rhiemeier
<joerg_rhiemeier@...> wrote:

> Translating something into a language that grammaticalizes different
> categories sometimes can be quite revealing.  For example, English
> tends to treat agents and instruments alike, allowing for such
> sentences as the NRA slogan "Guns don't kill people".  If one
> translates this into Old Albic, a language that clearly keeps
> agents and instruments apart, one gets (using the Modern Low Elvish
In gjax-zym-byn, which uses a variety of case-postpositions
for agent, patient, state, topic, cause, experiencer, etc., I would probably
render it something like this:

fix'hqax-cxa gaxn-rq    henx zunq-cox-box    jax-o
shoot-tool   cause-FROM not  alive-OPP.-ADJ. state-TO

max    jqaxr-i.
person experiencer-AT.

max    tu-i     zunq-cox-box    jax-o
person agent-AT alive-OPP.-ADJ. state-TO

max    hxy-i.
person patient-AT.

Not because of gun(s) people (become) dead.
People (cause) people (to become) dead.

(In neither sentence is there any verb;
I don't think I need any when the postpositions are
so clear.  Generally any sentence involving
"be", "become", "render" or "have" is translated
into gzb without any verb.  Re: another thread -
Adpositions are my favorite part of speech,
though cases are nifty too.)

I had to coin {fix'hqax} for this exercise, not
having had occasion to speak of shooting, guns,
ammunition or whatnot in gjax-zym-byn before.
I generally use verbal nouns as roots
and derive other things from them, so:

fix'hqax       the act of firing a projectile
fix'hqax-zox   to shoot [not really an infinitive]
fix'hqax-cxa   a gun, tool for shooting (as E-o "pafilo")
fix'hqax-ha    bullets (stuff used for shooting)
fix'hqax-pxa   result of shooting: bullets in motion? bullet wounds? dead people?

A more idiomatic way of rewriting the NRA slogan might be,

fix'hqax-cxa gaxn-rq henx zunq-cox-box jax-o max jqaxr-i,
moq fix'hqax gaxn-rq.

People do not die because of tool-for-shooting but because of
act-of-shooting.


- Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/conlang/tokipona/tokipona.htm