Re: Offensive stress (was: those irregular prepositions)

--- In conlang@yahoogroups.com, Eugene Oh <un.doing@...> wrote:
>On 6/23/06, Eldin Raigmore <eldin_raigmore@...> wrote:
>>Actually I think it's a spreading of the idea that the verb has the
>>accent on the last (or at least the later) syllable, while the noun
>>has it on the first (or at least the earlier) syllable.
>>OFFense is the noun, ofFEND is the verb
>>(I know it really has only one F.)
>>DEfense is the noun, deFEND is the verb
>>
>
>Really? That's quite interesting, I've always (and so has everyone
>around me) said ofFENCE and deFENCE,
I also hear ofFENCE and deFENCE more often than OFFense and DEfense; but
definitely not from "_everyone_ around me".

I have even heard both forms from the same speaker!

an ofFENSE is a particular offending action;
the OFFense is the complete strategy, or complete subunit of the team or
military unit, for taking the offensive.

an ofFENSE is a particular argument defending something;
the DEfense is the complete strategy, or complete team of attorneys, for
taking the defensive.

>because the noun and verb forms were different;
Yes, offend and offense, and defend and defense, do not have exactly the
same sequence of segments.  Therefore varying a supra-segmental feature
such as stress is not _necessary_ to distinguishing the verb from the
noun.

But languages often _require_ speakers to do things that aren't "necessary".

My point was, the spreading of this pattern to two pairs where it wasn't
strictly necessary, is a better explanation, than just "lack of
education".  (Actually almost linguistic phenomenon is poorly explained by
the bare "lack of education"; even where lack of education is part of it,
more explanation is required.)

>reCORD and REcord are distinguished by stress, though.
Right.

>Eugene
Thanks, Eugene.

-----
eldin