Re: CHAT: mental masturbation

I think you're taking this the wrong way. :)

First of all, I was not offended by your remarks themselves at all.
I don't know where you got the idea that *I* was (as you were,
I assume, including me in your list of detractors), but I *was*
irritated with your seemingly flippant attitude towards the sensitivities
of others.

I don't know what you might think, or how society acts where
you live, but where I come from, saying "Hmm!" as if to savor
a materialistic sexuality is considered an affront to a mature,
rational view of the world. It is hedonism, fleshy materialism at
its most pure level.  It was not at all clear that you were joking
when you said that.  I am sure this is the case for at least some
of the others here in this group, and so whether or not you feel
you are right or just in your opinion, others' views must also
be dealt with, pragmaticly speaking.

I also thought it was quite clear that *no* repression whatsoever
was going on here. Whatever you might have thought about it,
repression requires an ability to force people, whether socially
or physically, neither of which any of us can do.  More than once
I explicitly said to you that you have every right to think and
say what you want -- but there are such things as social norms,
rules which are guidelines to helping people get along with one
another, and when you or anyone else breaks these rules, discord
may result.  No one is saying you *have* to obey these rules, but
you are old enough, I'm sure, to know what these are, and so I think
I was within bounds believing that you had consciously chosen to
break these rules, because you had a right to. That was your right,
as I've said many times now, but your actions by necessity have
consequences.

What we were doing is asking for a level of civility to return.  On
more than one occasion in the past, several members have made
similar comments, which I and I'm sure others felt were inappropriate,
not to mention the fact that they were, often, entirely offtopic. At these
times, I declined to comment on that in the public forum, because I do
respect other people's right to talk about whatever they want.  It's
not like I or others have suddenly turned puritanical on you:  I personally
value tolerance as one of the highest virtues.  But I also value respect,
both for others' cultures, and others personally.  And when I see someone
not taking the proper respect for what I feel would be my or other people's
sensibilities, I become, I think with justification, a little irked.  It is in that
light that I tried, politely I thought, to inform the forum that I did not favor
such discussion, not so that I could diminish the extent of freedom of
discussion, but so that the quality of that discussion could be maintained.
You have to maintain a balance of these, or it's not worth discussing at all.

One more thing:  sex is not the only thing that causes problems.  There's
nothing wrong with sex itself, but if discussion of it is not handled right,
like politics or what have you, it only serves to divide the common group
spirit.  I have personally have no problem with discussing sexuality in the
group here, and I have openly said that before (as in the discussion of the
comparison between closeted conlanging and closeted homosexuality).
I only ask, along with those others who want it, for a little moderation in
tone, and a reduction in sarcasm.  That way, we can be much more
assured of all getting along happily.

I understand that misunderstandings do occur.  I understand that sometimes
people just aren't thinking, whether the original poster or the responder, and, yes,
I have gone too far at times.  So, I'm sorry if I've caused any offense, but you
did not seem to be cognizant of the fact that you had caused offense (at least
to some people, though not me personally).  It was this issue that I'm addressing,
and I hope, too, with you that such events will blow over.  I'll be making this the
last I have to say on the matter publicly.

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Tom Wier <artabanos@...>
AIM: Deuterotom ICQ: 4315704
<http://www.angelfire.com/tx/eclectorium/>
"Cogito ergo sum, sed credo ergo ero."
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