Re: Chris, Chris and Chris

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On Tuesday 18 December 2001 20:18, Patrick Dunn wrote:
> On Mon, 17 Dec 2001, Christopher B Wright wrote:
> > Then why did His followers die for their beliefs? (Puzzled frown.) People
> > don't die for what they know to be a lie. (It was documented by the
> > Romans that eleven of the twelve apostles were brutally martyred.)
>
> Christians are always saying this.  I wonder if they believe it.
>
I wouldn't want to swear to the exact number -- my knowledge of the history
of the early church isn't encyclopedic. But I hate it if someone entirely
outside the tradition questions my belief. Look, Patrick, I won't question
your beliefs -- please refrain from wondering whether people believe what
they say they believe. It's discourteous, because it implies they are liars.

> People are perverse creatures and will die for the silliest things.  An
> appeal to some kind of "human nature" is about the weakest lukewarm
> argument one could find.  Even God spits the lukewarm out of his mouth.
>
For a gentle martyr, one who didn't oppose his death sentence, and didn't
murder other people with his death, read the letter Ignatius, Bishop of
Antioch, wrote when he was conveyed to Rome. You can find the text in
the volume I of the Loeb edition of the Apostolic Fathers.

> > The Gospels were written within (about) forty years of Jesus' death
> > (which is a matter of Roman record) by those who saw what happened.
> > Either they wrote the truth, or they got together and wrote a bunch of
> > lies and then died to defend those lies. (Many things in the Gospels are
> > shared between them.)
>
> And many things are not.
As many things between the Washington Post and the Guardian aren't
shared -- or even between two retelling of the same story by the
same person.

- --
Boudewijn Rempt | http://www.valdyas.org
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