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TAN: Using METONYMS; was: O Duty (Was: "If")

From:Sally Caves <scaves@...>
Date:Tuesday, May 25, 1999, 20:17
John Cowan wrote:
> > Sally Caves wrote (in response to Ed's remark that the stripping away of
> > Hmmm. I'm not clear about this here. How has this stripping made > > possible the "major religions"? I would think quite the opposite. It > > may have made modern science possible, but the major religions I see > > on the other side of the fence in this argument. >
John wrote:
> The religions of the Book have for the most part rejected a purely > metaphorical world-view (this is that) for a metonymic one > (this is put for that). Ps, 72:17 (KJV) poetically says: > > His [God's] name shall endure forever, > his name shall be continued as long as the sun.
I don't know, John... I'm uncomfortable with these generalizations about the Good Book, which is a compendium of many many texts from many ages and cultures. Yes, a wonderful metonym, God's Name, which appears throughout the Bible, especially in our Christian "Word." But then: My sister, my bride, is a garden close-locked, A garden close-locked, a fountain sealed. Your parted lips behind your veil are like a pomegranate cut open. A straight simile! *** If you are churlish and arrogant and fond of filthy talk, Hold your tongue: For wringing out the milk produces curd And wringing the nose produces blood; So provocation leads to strife. These are from the Solomonic texts, but what about Christ's parables? The Kingdom of God is like a mustard-seed. The Kingdom of God is like treasure lying buried in a field. I think that metonym/metaphor/simile are used abundantly in both the Hebrew Bible and the New Testament. But fine... that was my point. I was contesting the notion that Ed Heil had raised that a stripping away of metonym or metaphor gave rise to both modern science "and the major religions." That's what I was confused about. Ed has since responded that he was simplifying Owen Barfield, much the way I once simplified Orin Gensler. <G> I've done some study of the use of images in Old English and Welsh... it was my dissertation. But that was a highly specialized study. I will have to read Barfield; it's very possible that I referenced him fifteen years ago and have forgotten. Unless he's recent. The name is very familiar, but I have a terrible memory these days.
> Typology, not metaphor, is the controlling metaphor of the Bible. :-)
Really? John 3:8:
> > # 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth [desires], and thou hearest the > # sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it > # goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
> "Spirit" in this case = "pneuma", and a fully metaphorical translation > of the last clause would be "That's what people are like who are > born from the wind."
This strikes me as being a form of paranomasia rather than simply metonym. Pneuma as both wind and breath.
> In turn, the modern world has for the most part rejected the > metonymic world-view for a simile-based one [this is like that], > obscuring the deep differences between its two predecessors.
I didn't understand how "stripping away" metonyms contributed to the major religions. I think Ed had misspoken here. But this is not for Conlang. I'm supposed to be finishing a Teonaht translation of Boudewijn's lusty poem. Where his poet is direct, my Teonivar is metaphoric. Returning to that task... Sally