Re: "Roumant", or whatever it may be called. Part V

Christophe Grandsire wrote:


> Well, two weeks ago I promised I would tell about verbs in
> "Roumant", so here it is!
Hooray!

> THE VERB:
[snip description of conjugations. Isn't this similar to the way French is
taught in France?]


> The simple tenses:
> There are nine simple tenses, corresponding to 4 personal moods:
> - the indicative present,
> - the indicative imperfect,
> - the indicative simple past,
How often is this used? Is it used rarely, like French, or as the stanard
past tense, as in Spanish?

> - the indicative future,
> - the subjunctive present,
> - the subjunctive imperfect,
> - the subjunctive future,
> - the conditional present,
> - the imperative present.
> Note the existence of a subjunctive future.
Noted.

> The indicative present:
> It's formed from the radical (infinitive without the ending) to
> which are added
> different endings for the different persons, and different from
> each group (the
> order is obviously: 1sg, 2sg, 3sg, 1pl, 2pl, 3pl):
> - 1st group verbs: -e, -as, -at, -ams, -és, -am
> - 2nd group verbs: -e, -es, -et, -ems, -és, -em
> - 3rd group verbs: -ie, -ies, -iet, -issims, -issés, -issim
Very "Old French-esque"!

> The indicative imperfect:
> It's also formed from the radical to which special endings are added:
> - 1st group: -àv, -àvs, -àvt, -âvams, -âvés, -âvam
> - 2nd group: -èv, -èvs, -èvt, -êvams, -êvés, -êvam
> - 3rd group: -issìv, -issìvs, -issìvt, -issîvams, -issîvés, issîvam
>
> The indicative simple past:
> It's also formed from the radical, to which special endings are added:
> - 1st group: -ai, -ass, -ó, -âme, -âte, -âre
> - 2nd group: -ì, -ess, -é, -ême, -ête, -êre
> - 3rd group: -ì, -iss, -é, -îme, -îte, -îre
> It's the tense most full of irregularities.
Details? Irregularities as in French past historic, where it seems to be
derived from the ppt of irregular verbs?

> The indicative future:
> It's formed from the infinitive (from which the circonflex accent
> and the final
> -e are dropped) to which are added the endings of the auxiliary
> avôre in the
> indicative present:
> - -è, -às, -à, -oms, -és, -om
> This formation is common to most Western Romance langs. Note that
> the verbs like
> volle drop their -e and add an -r before the endings, so that the
> future radical
> is for volle: vollr-. This tense is the most regular of all.
>
> The subjunctive present:
> It is formed from the radical to which the following endings are added:
> - 1st and 2nd group: -e,-es, -et, -ioms, -iés, -iom
> - 3rd group: -isse, -isses, -isset, -issioms, -issiés, -issiom
> Note that the 1st and 2nd group don't have different endings for
> this tense.
>
> The subjunctive imperfect:
> It is formed using the 2nd person sg. of the indicative simple
> past (the form
> ending in -ss) as a radical, to which are added the endings of
> the subjunctive
> present for the 1st and 2nd group. Note that it makes subjunctive
> present and
> imperfect identical for verbs of the 3rd group, except for the
> 1pl and 2pl where
> the stress position is different.
>
> The subjunctive future:
> It is formed from the same base as the indicative future, to
> which are added the
> endings of the verb avôre in subjunctive present (in fact the
> same endings as
> the 1st and 2nd groups).
I like this! It's completely logical, too! Why didn't other Romance langs do
this too?

> The conditional present:
> It is formed from the same base as the indicative future, to
> which are added the
> endings of the verb avôre in the indicative imperfect:
> - -èv, -èvs, -èvt, -êvams, -êvés, -êvam
>
> The imperative present:
> It exists only for the second person (singular and plural), the
> other persons
> being filled with subjunctive present forms. It is formed by adding the
> following endings to the radical:
> - 1st group: -, -e, -, -, -âte, -
> - 2nd group: -, -e, -, -, -ête, -
> - 3rd group: -, -ie, -, -, -issîte, -
>
> The impersonal forms:
> There are four impersonal forms (one one which is already explained): the
> infinitive, the present participle, the past participle and the gerund.
Gerund? As in Latin- a sort of "future participle"?.

> The present participle:
> For regular verbs, it is formed from the radical to which is added:
> - 1st group: -ant
> - 2nd group: -ent
> - 3rd group: -issint
> It can be used as an adjective, which thus agrees in gender and
> number with the
> noun it completes.
>
> The past participle:
> It's formed from the radical to which is added:
> - 1st group: -àt
> - 2nd group: -èt
> - 3rd group: -ìt
> It also can be used as an adjective, and also agrees in gender
> and number with
> the noun it completes.
Almost exacly the same as Arveunan, only the "2nd group", the -re verbs has
the ppt. -út.

> The gerund:
> It's an adverbial form, which is simply formed like an adverb
Consider above question answered. Can it be used like Latin, though, as in
"quod erat demonstrandum"?

> from the present
> participle:
> - 1st group: -ammente
> - 2nd group: -emmente
> - 3rd group: -issinté (the form -issimmente is usually not used)
>
> The compound tenses:
> To each simple tense, there is a corresponding compound tense,
> formed for every
> verb by conjugating the auxiliary avôre in the corresponding simple tense,
> followed by the (invariable) past participle of the verb. Those different
> compound tenses are:
> - the indicative perfect,
> - the indicative pluperfect,
> - the indicative past perfect,
> - the indicative future perfect,
> - the subjunctive perfect,
> - the subjunctive pluperfect,
> - the subjunctive future perfect,
> - the conditional perfect,
> - the imperative perfect.
> It is also possible to form an infinitive perfect (avôre + past
> participle), a
> perfect participle (eiyent + past participle) and a perfect
> gerund (eiyemmente +
> past participle), but those forms are hardly ever used.
Quickie here: does Roumant use the double compound past tense (ça a eu payé)
or the "après avoir" construction? IIRC Henriette Walter mentions in "Le
français dans tous les sens" that the doupe compund is used very frequently
in the south.

> The passive voice:
> Like in French and other modern Romance tongues, the passive
> voice, when it
> exists (that's to say, only with transitive verbs) is formed by
> adding the past
> participle (which then behaves like a predicate adjective and
> thus agrees in
> gender and number with the subject) to the auxiliary stêre: to be
> conjugated in
> the chosen tense.
Also uses reflexive verbs to for a "pseudo-passive", yes? As in Spanish
Italian and indeed, your own mother tongue. Why are all these questions
about usage?

[snip conjugation tables- fascinating. Gods I'm so sad, I think conjugation
tables are exciting- I need to get out more!]

> I think I will
> anyway make a special post for îre, avôre and stêre, because they are very
> particular even among irregular verbs (especially îre whose
> complete conjugation
> comes in fact from the collapsing of four different verbs!).
Ben, òc! Grasias!

> Right now I'm waiting for your comments on this part. If you
> want, I will post
> more verbal paradigms, or I will go to other parts, like the
> prepositions, the
> negation (a very interesting feature in "Roumant") and the
> numerals. Or I can do
> both if you want :) .
Yes please! I want more! <Dan the masochist jumps up and down in a hysteric
overload of Romance languages>

Dan, who has been speaking French all day and is thoroughly sick of it.

>
> Christophe.
>


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cuebra um deroát a zi sem,
Break a piece of wood and I am there,
                                            cuoca um perro tu me meitera
  Dan Jones                         Lift a rock and you will find me