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Re: Quick language sketch -- Hrondu

From:Yoon Ha Lee <yl112@...>
Date:Friday, January 26, 2001, 23:25
On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Patrick Dunn wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Jan 2001, Yoon Ha Lee wrote: > > > :-) Looks vaguely like Korean or Japanese in that respect. (Korean I > > *think* only has one topic particle.) > > I've been playing with Japanese (I wouldn't say studying it) and that's > where I got the topic-compliment stuff.
Yeah, I've been playing with Japanese myself (I *have* semi-coherent Japanese grammars, but haven't been able to find anything resembling a descriptive grammar of Korean in English, which is a real pain because my Korean is certainly far, far better than my Japanese). I'm contemplating doing a German-Japanese mix, and no, it's not meant to be plausible, just fun. Mix two at-some-point-in-the-past-militaristic cultures' languages and see what happens....
> > (Is a mora something vaguely related to a syllable?) > > Yes and no. To put it in native terms, a mora is one syllable symbol in > the writing system, but since we're using a transliteration here, it's > hard to see that.
Oh! That makes lots of sense. :-)
> Think of a mora less as a syllable and more as the lenth of time it takes > to pronounce the syllable. The native name, for instance, is made of > three mora but only two syllables: > > Hro -- unvoiced /r/ followed by a vowel > n > du
(Unless, OC, some foreigner like me were to pronounce the "n" syllabically.) I confess I haven't figured out how to unvoice any [r]. But I can produce a faltering but recognizable trilled [r] thanks to Dan Sulani's instructions long, long ago. I'm still working on it. :-)
> > JOOC, how does that work? I am probably just peculiar, but my biggest > > problem in Latin is that I keep wanting to loudness-stress long vowels. > > (For some reason Japanese doesn't bother me that way.) And then, on the > > "real" stress of Latin words I find myself pitch-accenting instead of > > loudness-accenting, which makes me feel like an idiot. > > *smiles* You're more fastidious than I am. I just read the thing whoever > I wish; I figure I'm not likely to run into Caesar anytime soon.
I'm a pedant. I even pronounce the stupid names in Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time books, which I don't even read anymore (I gave up after _Path of Daggers_--Jordan fans, please don't flame me; I don't think he's horrible, I just have no more desire to read Jordan), the way he puts 'em in the glossary, even though IMHO [egweIn'] is awful and [nai'niv] is pretty bad, too. (I was perfectly happy with pronouncing the latter [nineI'vi] until I saw the glossary.) This does not, OC, guarantee in any way that I'm going to be remotely close to the "real" pronunciation.
> BTW, some scholars think that Latin *was* at one time pitch-accented. > However, I personally suspect this is based on unreliable evidence > (namely, the assertion of various Romans who were trying to point out > similarities with Greek).
> > The point of this digression being to say, as a foreign speaker of this > > language I would find myself shifting stress to the ultimate mora? (final > > syllable-like thing?) with the doubled final vowel. Perhaps it could be > > a Yoonian accent. =^) > > Here your instinct woudl be correct. In, say, > > kipuu -- to cook; to burn(tr) > > the accent is on the penultimate mora, which is in the final syllable. > > kipusa -- will cook > > the accent is still on the penultimate mora, but now this mora falls on > the penultimate syllable. > > So you wouldn't have an accent after all! At least, not an accent based > on -- well, accent. hehehe
Oh, I see! :-) I guessed wrong on where mora-boundaries were because I was thinking vague syllables. Thanks. YHL, finally understanding after all this time what a mora is (I missed the definition in the long mora-thread some months? ago and was consequently quite confused)