Re: A funny linguistic subway experience + some questions about nouns of days and months
| From: | Christophe Grandsire <christophe.grandsire@...> |
|---|
| Date: | Monday, November 27, 2000, 14:08 |
|---|
En réponse à Jeff Jones <jeffsjones@...>:
>
>
> I'm waiting to find out what the answer is! I know very little about
> EuroSpanish dialects, but I'm also sure he isn't from Madrid (I once
> heard
> a tour guide there talk about an artist named /belafkef/). When you say
> final /s/ was deleted, do you mean syllable-final or word-final?
>
I don't remember about syllable-final. Anyway, it was a really short
conversation. But I'm sure /s/ was deleted when word-final.
> > Now let's see the second part of my post. I'm currently trying to find
> > out what are the names of days and months in "Roumant". But I have a
> few
> > problems with them in other Romance langs (I've collected them in
> French,
> > Spanish, Portuguese, Italian, Romanian, Catalan and Occitan, as well
> as
> > the CL forms they are derived from. I don't know the VL forms).
>
> It would be nice to see that table.
>
OK, so let me show you (I don't have all the forms in Occitan, and anyway the
ones I have differ from Catalan only by orthographic features, so I'll give only
the Catalan forms):
CL: French: Spanish: Portuguese: Italian: ***Romanian:
Lúnae dies lundi lunes segunda lunedì luni
Mártis dies mardi martes terça martedì marti
Mercúrii dies mercredi miércoles quarta mercoledì miercuri
Ióuis dies jeudi jueves quinta giovedì joi
Uéneris dies vendredi viernes sexta venerdì vineri
*Sáb(b)atum (dies) samedi sábado sábado sabato sambata
**Domínica (dies) dimanche domingo domingo domenica duminica
Ianuárius janvier enero janeiro gennaio ianuarie
Februárius février febrero fevereiro febbraio februarie
Mártius mars marzo março marzo martie
Aprílis avril abril abril aprile aprilie
Máius mai mayo maio maggio (luna) mai
Iúnius juin junio junho giugno iunie
Iúlius juillet julio julho luglio iulie
Augústus août agosto agôsto agosto (luna) august
Septémber septembre septiembre setembro settembre septembrie
Octóber octobre octubre outubro ottobre octombrie
Novémber novembre noviembre novembro novembre noiembrie
Decémber décembre diciembre dezembro dicembre decembrie
Catalan:
dilluns (Occ. diluns)
dimarts
dimecres
dijous
divendres
dissabte
diumenge (Occ. dimenge)
gener
febrer
març
abril
maig
juny
juliol
agost
setembre
octubre (Occ. octobre)
novembre
desembre
* Rom. sambata seems to account for a form Sábbata (dies), while Fr. samedi
would account more for a form like Sábbati dies.
** Por. and Sp. domingo seem to account for a form Domínicus (dies), while all
the others are compatible with the feminine Domínica (dies).
*** The quite conservative forms for the Romanian months must be noted. Also
note the use of "luna": month (yes, "month" is "luna" in Romanian, I find this
really neat!) with mai and august (maybe because those words are also used as
adjectives in Romanian, "august" meaning for instance: honorable). Also note the
prenasalisation of "b" in sambata and octombrie.
>
> I think <<dia>> is still masculine in Spanish, despite the final <a>.
>
It is indeed. There are a few words in Spanish (most of them ending in -ista)
that are masculine despite a final -a.
>
> Sabbath is the ordinary English spelling. Shabbat is the Jewish version
> (evening and morning).
>
I'll remember that.
>
> I don't have any idea, but isn't Samstag a German word for Saturday?
>
Yes, John Cowan already pointed that out. Still, it doesn't give me any clue
where the French form comes from. The form of Germanic that mostly influenced
French was Frankish, which is the ancestor of Dutch and Flemish (AFAIK). But in
Dutch, Saturday is Zaterdag. So, except if this form is modern and replaced an
older one, the Germanic influence cannot account for the French "samedi".
Christophe.