Re: aspirated m?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Williams" <feurieaux@...>
To: <CONLANG@...>
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:10 PM
Subject: Re: aspirated m?


> Some languages did have a nasalized labial fricative,
> [v_n] or something like that, that developed from [m]
> (or maybe the nasalization of [v], which is an obvious
> alternate path). I think Sindarin had that sort of
> shift going on in its earlier stages, and if you're
> looking for non-fictional examples, I hear tell that
> Sanskrit allowed a nasalized [v] in some instances,
> though it was allophonic (as far as I know).
>
> Do you mean the 'aspirated m' of Celtic languages? I
> believe it just means [v] as mutated from [m], though
> my knowledge of any of those languages is woefully
> limited. As far as I know, 'aspirated' is used in
> Celtic language literature to mean fricativized; i.e.,
> 'aspirated p' is [f].
There is soft, nasal, and spirant mutation in Welsh.  What you are
describing with "p" is spirant mutation, where voiceless stops are
fricatized.  Changing /m/ to /v/ is part of soft of mutation, a combination
of lenition (changing stops to fricatives) and the voicing of unvoiced
stops.

> In Welsh, though, I think /mh/ is actually voiceless
> [m].

In Welsh, there is no real aspirated "m"; phrases like fy mhen, "my head,"
are pronounced /vVm'hEn/.  Like "some help."  That's why I developed an
"aspirated m, n, and ng" in Teonaht.  You shape these sounds and while
holding them breathe out through your nose.  If your nose is stopped up, it
goes right up your eustachian tubes.  Not pleasant. :)

hman, "bread."  hme, "be constrained to," etc.

> One of the conlangers on this list had a phonemic
> fricativized [m] in his/her conlang, but I heard about
> it years ago. It's a pretty basic 'weird' sound, and
> one that's not all that difficult to pronounce, once
> you get the hang of simultaneous oral and nasal
> airflow.
Was that me?   It was never really "fricativized."  Just redirected airflow.

Sally

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