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Expressions of distaste (was: CHAT Starbucks (was: Hymn to Ikea etc.))

From:Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>
Date:Sunday, February 29, 2004, 8:06
On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 09:47 AM, Andreas Johansson wrote:

> Quoting Ray Brown <ray.brown@...>:
>> ...and not not spoilt with any milk and certainly NO sugar! > > I assume that double negation is not intended?
You assume correctly - 'twas a lapsus manus.
>> And as for that abomination called 'instant coffee' - ach y fi!! > > Remind me; is that "ach y fi" Welsh?
> It always makes me think of Swedish _usch > och fy_ ([8S O fy:] in my 'lect), an interjection of distaste.
And the Welsh is also an interjection of disgust - a little more forceful than English 'ugh', 'yuk' etc! ======================================================= On Saturday, February 28, 2004, at 11:16 AM, Andreas Johansson wrote:
> Quoting Christian Thalmann <cinga@...>:
> >> Funny, in Swiss German, there's the rare /{:kXi'pfuj/, probably >> a fusion of the two interjections of distaste /v{:kX/ and /pfuj/. >> They don't mean anything. What do the Welsh and Swedish versions >> mean?
Good question. 'Ach' or 'Ych' can be used by themselves as expressions of distaste, rather like Scots 'och' [Ox] may be, or the English 'ugh', 'yuk' etc. The longer form gives it more body, so to speak. I assume it's written as three words because *achyfi would imply incorrect stress. But analyzed as separate words, it's a bit of a puzzler. 'fi' is a mutated form of 'mi' = "I"/"me" (Welsh has abandoned cases); 'y' has three different meanings - definite article, relative particle, affirmative particle before verb 'to be' - none make sense here. All I can say is that it's idiomatic.
>> And is the Welsh /AX @ vi:/?
Not quite; Welsh doesn't have [A]. Its's [aX@'vi:]; there's also a variant "Ych y fi!" [@X@'vi:].
> The Swedish consists of _usch_, also an interjection indicating distate, > _och_ "and" (one of the more atrociously spelt words in Swedish), and > _fy_, a > word indicating disapproval or distaste, the later meaning being relevant > here.
I wonder if the Welsh expression didn't originate in a similar way, tho according to my dictionary the Welsh foe English 'fie' is 'ffei' [f@j]. Could *'ach a ffei' have become 'ach y fi'? Perhaps Silvia's dictionary can help us. Ray =============================================== (home) (work) =============================================== "A mind which thinks at its own expense will always interfere with language." J.G. Hamann, 1760