Re: "I didn't know that..."

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 12:10:24 -0500, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...> wrote:

>On 3/12/06, Harold Ensle <heensle@...> wrote:
>> On Sat, 11 Mar 2006 15:13:28 -0500, Mark J. Reed <markjreed@...>
wrote:
>>
>> >Given statement X which is a true statement that continues to be true
>> >in the present time, what tense/mood/verb form would your lang use in
>> >X in the equivalent of "I didn't know X"?
>> >
>> >AFAICT, Englishhas somewhat free variation between the past and
>> >present indicative here, although the present is only an option when
>> >the statement continues to be true.
>>
>> I don't see this. The reason the past is used here is because it is,
>> in fact, the simple past. This statement is in reply to someone telling
>> you the fact, therefore you NOW KNOW the fact and the present thus
>> cannot be used.
>
>Well, as a native English speaker, I must disagree with you.  I hear
>and use the present here frequently.  e.g. upon seeing someone at work
>whom I recognize elsewhence: "I didn't know you work here!"  or, to
>someone else, "I didn't know she works here!"  I could, it's true, say
>"I didn't know you/she worked here!" - that'd be that free variation I
>mentioned.
Actually for what *I* was writing about, I was correct, but
unfortunately I was not writing about the same thing you were.
In other words, I completely misunderstood your question. I see
now that you were talking about the tense of the subclause.

But in your last sentence, the apparent past tense is in fact
the rarely used English subjunctive (which has the same form as
the past). So in English, one has the choice of either present
or subjunctive, but in romance languages perhaps one is limited
only to the subjunctive. I think this might be because, being
an object of the verb "know", it is automatically assumed to be
tenseless, so a subjunctive form seems more natural.

But now that I see your point, my language would have to use
the present, since the subclause action is actually occurring.

Sorry about the misunderstanding.

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