French negation - yes, it is double!

>They are not double negative constructions, simply negation is split in two
>parts in French. Really 'pas', 'jamais', 'rien' had originally an
>affirmative
>meaning (and sometimes still have, ex: Avez-vous *jamais* vu ça? Did you
>*ever*
>see that?). They are taking now the negative meaning only when "ne" is not
>around (and it usually disappears in speech because it's not stressed,
>unlike
>the other part of the negation. That's also why a second part appeared
>originally).
Sorry; while this was true initially I don't think it's the case any longer
in spoken French.

For example, in vernacular French "ne" is almost always deleted: "J'ai
jamais vu ça". And also: "As-tu vu ça?" "Jamais." You can even have double
negation with no "ne": "Y'en a plus rien".

It's gotten to the point that the word "plus" has split into two
pronunciations: /plys/ meaning "more", /ply/ or (especially Quebec) /py/
meaning "no more".

Conversely, sometimes "ne" can appear on its own: "Je n'admets qu'on ménace
mes résolutions" (Mylène Farmer).

It's true that in proper written French the "ne" isn't omitted, but I
shouldn't have to explain that that's prescriptive and not descriptive
grammar. So it started off as being a split negation, but isn't any longer.

Blessed be,                  Écartons ces romans
Matt McLauchlin                  qu'on appèle systèmes,
GM19, Montreal, Canada       Et pour nous éléver
English/français/esperanto       descendons dans nous-mêmes.
icq: 4420218                               -Voltaire
http://www.crosswinds.net/~montrealais

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