Re: Phaleran Imperatives and Politeness markers

Jesse Bangs wrote:

> I've always been terrified of complicated politeness systems . . .
>
> >                                         Addressee
> > A
> > d            1            2            3        4        5        6
> > d   1        -            -             -        -         -        -
> > r    2        -ya        -             -        -         -        -
> > e    3        -eilu      -tañke     -        -         -        -
> > s    4        -arsâ    -c|a         -c|hu   -         -         -
> > s    5        -hailo    -xoru      -ssa    -ena    -         -
> > e    6        -krû      -wenas    -aña   -erhu  -elpha -
> > r
>
> I'm immediately struck that none of these are the same!  That is
> certainly a lot to remember, although I suppose any one person would only
> have to know one line of the chart.
Yeah, I don't think memory per se is really a problem.  Human cultures the world
over do some pretty amazing things with memory, everything from oral literatures
like the Iliad (which is around 12,000 lines long) to the baroque kinship systems
that some languages have.

> Still, I would expect that some of these would repeat.
Interesting point.  I should first say that this is a *standardized* language,
which means that there are aspects to it that are unabashedly artificial, because
that is the nature of standardization. That having been said, you can't point your
finger at the Academy every time you have an idiosyncracy.

You question implies the problem of functional load.  The salient point with this system
is that each person in society would have to take into account not only the rank of his
interlocutor, but also all others including where he fits into the overal system.  Such a
system could come about, it seems to me, if social classes are tightly segregated, and
all interaction between them is of a highly formal nature.  In other words, it's based on the
assumption that people who don't work with each other all the time and at the same time
have a very strong sense of class consciousness are more likely to demand recognition
of that fact when they do come into contact with other classes. I'm not entirely convinced
myself that such a strong sense of class consciousness is likely to evolve, although the latter
days of Tsarist Russia (its official motto:  "Nationalism, Orthodoxy, Autocracy") came
pretty close.

That's an idea, at any rate.  Dunno if it's a good one.

> What are the etymologies of the clitics?
I haven't worked out the etymologies yet; I was operating on the assumption
that they had evolved out of common nouns, as in Japanese.

===================================
Thomas Wier | AIM: trwier

"Aspidi men Saiôn tis agalletai, hên para thamnôi
  entos amômêton kallipon ouk ethelôn;
autos d' exephugon thanatou telos: aspis ekeinê
  erretô; exautês ktêsomai ou kakiô" - Arkhilokhos