Re: German style orthography

Hi!

Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> writes:
> Quoting "J. 'Mach' Wust" <j_mach_wust@...>:
>
> > On Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:59:28 +0100, Andreas Johansson <andjo@...> wrote:
> >
> > >This, alas, is no longer true in the age of Neudeutsch - sufficient numbers
> > >of speakers retain initial [s] in loans like _Sex_ ([sEks], contrasting
> > >with _sechs_ [zEks]) that Duden recognizes it.
> >
> > What a surprising minimal pair! I also have initial /s/ in certain loans,
> > e.g. _Cidre, Cedille, City_, but certainly not in _Sex_ (which to me is
> > homophonous to _sechs_ "six"), but now that you mention it I think I
> > remember I've heard this pronunciation on the media from Germany.
>
> Don't blame me, blame my German teacher (a native of East Berlin), who pointed
> it out to me! :)
>
> I know it's a bit "bad", since the [sEks] pronunciation is far from universal -
> indeed, if ordering in the Duden is of significance, [zEks] would appear to be
> the commoner pronuncation -
I don't think so (but this is of course limited to my experience) --
most Germans I know say [sEks] and thus it is a perfect minimal pair
with |sechs| [zEks].

There is also |Szene|, which was once mentioned on the list, but it
has a cluster at the beginning that varies a lot more.  I have
['stse:n@] ~ ['s:e:n@], but [ts] and [s] seem to be widespread, too.
(So for many, it is homophonous with |Zähne| (i.e., ['tse:n@]), since
the /E:/ ~ /e:/ contrast is not retained by all speakers (for me, it
is ['tsE:n@])).  At least, it is a word that surely has no initial [z]
and thus, it is a minimal pair with |Sehne| [ze:n@].

Other early (English) loans with initial [s] would be
      |Scanner|  ['skEn6]
or all with
      |Self...|  [sElf...]
and   |Soft...|  [sOft...]
and   |surf...|  [s96f...]
and   |Set|      [sEt]
and   |Setting|  ['sEtIN].

(Although I've heard [zEt] and less frequently ['zEtIN].)

But, of course, the vast majority of loans uses [z] for initial |s|,
as in |simpel| ['zImpl=] and so many others.

> I notice that Duden gives [sEnt] as the only pronuncation of
> _Cent_. I've always been saying [tsEnt],
Right.  I feel both are equally common.

**Henrik