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Re: Antipassive

From:BP Jonsson <bpj@...>
Date:Thursday, June 28, 2001, 12:38
Haranaerzel isjkahmasaesj (The Gray Wizard wrote):

>An antipassive voice is not a _requirement_ of ergative languages, >especially if the language is only morphologically ergative as opposed to >being syntactically ergative as well.
I think Sahlab is only morphologically ergative, at least for the time being. This may change as I explore ergativity, however!
>>However I get new confusion from the answers... >> >>1) Since I've decided that Sahlab marks topic with word order >>(the topic is >>clause-initial) there would not seem to be any need for a special form of >>the verb to give topical prominence.
[snip]
>>2) All verbs in Sahlab are lexically marked as either transitive or >>intransitive, with suffixes to convert between the classes. > >I submit that these conversion suffixes are indeed voice operations that >might perform the same function as an antipassive.
Yes they probably are.
>>I'm not keen on scrapping the topic marking by word order, but it seems >>that I don't really need both strict transitivity tagging *and* an >>antipassive form of the verb. > >No need to scrap topic marking word order, amman iar has both. Since your >transitivity tags function as valence decreasing operators, it would seem >to me that you would only need an antipassive voice if you language needs >to distinguish between the following operations: > >John kissed Mary -> Mary was kissed [by John] (Passive)
_Maraendj Djanardj-al iskezd-aesj _ Mary John-ERG kiss-PAST
>John kissed Mary -> John kissed, [Mary] (Antipassive)
_Djanardj-al iskezd-aesj Maraendj _ so it seems these can be distinguished by word order and case marking! At 06:41 2001-06-28 -0400, The Gray Wizard wrote:
>better yet, read Dixon's book 'Ergativity'.
I will! :-) /BP 8^)> -- B.Philip Jonsson mailto:bpX@netg.se (delete X) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~__ A h-ammen ledin i phith! \ \ __ ____ ____ _____________ ____ __ __ __ / / \ \/___ \\__ \ /___ _____/\ \\__ \\ \ \ \\ \ / / / / / / / \ / /Melroch\ \_/ // / / // / / / / /___/ /_ / /\ \ / /Melarokko\_ // /__/ // /__/ / /_________//_/ \_\/ /Eowine __ / / \___/\_\\___/\_\ Gwaedhvenn Angelmiel \ \______/ /a/ /_h-adar Merthol naun ~~~~~~~~~Kuinondil~~~\________/~~\__/~~~Noolendur~~~~~~ || Lenda lenda pellalenda pellatellenda kuivie aiya! || "A coincidence, as we say in Middle-Earth" (JRR Tolkien)

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The Gray Wizard <dbell@...>