Re: Latin help

ROGER MILLS wrote:
> R.A.Brown wrote:
>
>> I fail to see how this match between quantitative and accentual
>> rhythms can possibly be said to be "all wrong for that melody."
>
>
> In fact, it's _quite right for the melody_. It's surely true that no
> Latin speaker ever stressed illud, negat, potest etc. on the last
> syllable.
The clear evidence of the Romance languages is that the various forms of
_ille_ were often stressed on the second syllable in Vulgar Latin.
Indeed it seems that whether this demonstrative adjective/pronoun was
stressed on the first or second syllable depended upon context & use. It
is not improbable that _ille_ similarly had variable stress in Classical
Latin.

> But hey it's poetry/music, where all rules may be bent--almost
> required when fitting a foreign lang. to another lang's patterns.
Yes, indeed - as we see when fitting the metrical patterns of ancient
Greek to Classical Latin    ;)

There is, in fact, considerable debate about how Classical Latin verse
should be stressed.

> And
> in any case, it's hardly echt Lateinisch....  I imagine there are great
> and well-known poems/songs in English with stress on "a, the"  or other
> normally unstressed syllables etc.
Indeed, there are. But as I have argued, the _quantitative_ pattern of
the Latin does, in fact, neatly fit the accentual pattern of the
English. So, ipso_facto, it is - as you wrote above - "_quite right for
the melody_"

[snip]
>> I just do not understand the point you are making - nor do I see any
>> point in continuing this sub-thread in the Latin help thread.
>>
> It _is_ becoming a rather enlarged mole-hill.............:-)))))
Yep - but I thought the observation about _ille_, _illud_ etc. might be
informative for any Romconlangers who were not aware of it. On that cue,
let's get back to Conlanging.

--
Ray
==================================
ray@carolandray.plus.com
http://www.carolandray.plus.com
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Nid rhy hen neb i ddysgu.
There's none too old to learn.
[WELSH PROVERB]